[squeak-dev] about the Viewer for a MorphNicola Mingotti nmingotti at gmail.comMon Oct 21 05:38:11 UTC 2019
Hi Karl, In my opinion there is no doubt the Etoys is inferior in power to pure text programming. But I suppose that was never an objective, since, for example in the Etoys variables you can't use Collections. What could you do in Smalltalk without Collections? ;) Maybe with time I will realize Etoys is hopeless too, but for the moment I find it kind of cool. I am going to spend a bit more time exploring it. bye Nicola > On Oct 20, 2019, at 11:06 AM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 7:19 PM K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml at gmail.com <mailto:kksubbu.ml at gmail.com>> wrote: > Karl, > > I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce > programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor > (players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand. > > Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch > over to using text and use the full power of Squeak. > > Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well > for its intended audience. > > I mean it's hard to program so to start tile scripting seems like a good idea. > But the leverage you get from using tiles is surpassed within a few projects. > Anything more complex than 10 scripts or is really cumbersome. > Also any complex scripts are also hard to deal with. Text for this is far superior. > > I'm sure tile scripting has its use but I'm not very motivated to develop and enhance > etoys anymore. I used to do a lot of work for the Etoys image for OLPC. > > Best, > Karl > > > Regards .. Subbu > > On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote: > > I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore > > > > The main issue is scaleability of tile scripting in regards to writing > > text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I > > find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project > > bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe > > it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed. > > Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text > > scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal > > with than tiles. > > > > Best, > > Karl > > > > > > On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com> > > <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Karl, > > > > The feature is very promising. > > > > It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the > > imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a > > video. > > > > Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly > > variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something > > that Typing Joe did thousands of times. > > It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself > > and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement. > > > > If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a > > landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video. > > > > bye > > Nicola > > > > > > > > > >> On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com <mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com> > >> <mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com <mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com>>> wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> I understand what you talk about now :-) > >> This functionality is experimental. I think it was part of a plan > >> to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished. > >> > >> Best, > >> Karl > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti > >> <nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com> <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>>> wrote: > >> > >> hi, > >> > >> here is a video explaining the question > >> > >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be> > >> > >> > >> bye > >> Nicola > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg > >>> <karlramberg at gmail.com <mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com><mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com <mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com>>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> I dom't really understand what you ask here. > >>> Could you send a screen shot or something ? > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> Karl > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti > >>> <nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com> <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Marcel, > >>> > >>> I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players. > >>> > >>> Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer > >>> for a Morph ! > >>> > >>> And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the > >>> big picture nor how to use it. > >>> > >>> It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the > >>> Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in > >>> the World, in a tile. > >>> > >>> bye > >>> Nicola > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel > >>>> <marcel.taeumel at hpi.de <mailto:marcel.taeumel at hpi.de><mailto:marcel.taeumel at hpi.de <mailto:marcel.taeumel at hpi.de>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in > >>>> the Viewer window ? > >>>> > >>>> I think you need to click on "viewer for player". > >>>> Players can have scripts, which are constructed from > >>>> those tiles. > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> Marcel > >>>>> > >>>>> Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti > >>>>> <nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com><mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>>>: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> Please follow these steps: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World > >>>>> 2] Center click over it > >>>>> 3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one) > >>>>> 4] Select "Viewer for Morph" > >>>>> > >>>>> I see a lot of properties which I usually control via > >>>>> the Workspace. > >>>>> > >>>>> Let's focus on "Rectangl Center". > >>>>> > >>>>> My questions are: > >>>>> -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in > >>>>> the Viewer window ? > >>>>> -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag > >>>>> out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into > >>>>> the World . So I could always check (in this case) the > >>>>> center of a Morph. > >>>>> -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use > >>>>> all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ? > >>>>> > >>>>> bye > >>>>> > >>>>> Nicola Mingotti > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/attachments/20191020/6573cea4/attachment.html>
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