On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 at 07:38, Nicola Mingotti <nmingotti at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi Karl,
>
> In my opinion there is no doubt the Etoys is inferior in power to pure
> text programming. But I suppose that was never an objective, since, for
> example in the Etoys variables you can't use Collections. What could you do
> in Smalltalk without Collections? ;)
>
> Maybe with time I will realize Etoys is hopeless too, but for the moment I
> find it kind of cool. I am going to spend a bit more time exploring it.
>
> bye
> Nicola
>

Etoys is quite nice for it’s intended use :-)

You can use holders for collections.
Here is a project that use holders for collections:
http://www.squeakland.org/content/showcase/everyone/accounts/karl/maze%20constructor.021.pr



Best regards,
Karl

>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2019, at 11:06 AM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 7:19 PM K K Subbu <kksubbu.ml at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Karl,
>>
>> I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce
>> programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor
>> (players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand.
>>
>> Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch
>> over to using text and use the full power of Squeak.
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well
>> for its intended audience.
>>
>
> I mean it's hard to program so to start tile scripting seems like a good
> idea.
> But the leverage you get from using tiles is surpassed within a few
> projects.
> Anything more complex than 10 scripts or  is really cumbersome.
> Also any complex scripts are also hard to deal with. Text for this is far
> superior.
>
> I'm sure tile scripting has its use but I'm not very motivated to develop
> and enhance
> etoys anymore. I used to do a lot of work for the Etoys image for OLPC.
>
> Best,
> Karl
>
>
>> Regards .. Subbu
>>
>> On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote:
>> > I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore
>> >
>> > The main issue is scaleability  of tile  scripting in regards to writing
>>
>> > text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I
>> > find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project
>> > bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe
>>
>> > it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed.
>> > Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text
>> > scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal
>> > with than tiles.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Karl
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <nmingotti at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >     Hi Karl,
>> >
>> >     The feature is very promising.
>> >
>> >     It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the
>> >     imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a
>> >     video.
>> >
>> >     Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly
>> >     variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something
>> >     that Typing Joe did thousands of times.
>> >     It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself
>> >     and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement.
>> >
>> >     If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a
>> >     landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video.
>> >
>> >     bye
>> >     Nicola
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>     On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com
>> >>     <mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>     Hi,
>> >>     I understand what you talk about now :-)
>> >>     This functionality is experimental.  I think it was part of a plan
>> >>     to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.
>> >>
>> >>     Best,
>> >>     Karl
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>     On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti
>> >>     <nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>         hi,
>> >>
>> >>         here is a video explaining the question
>> >>
>> >>         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>         bye
>> >>         Nicola
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>         On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg
>> >>>         <karlramberg at gmail.com<mailto:karlramberg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>         Hi,
>> >>>         I dom't really understand what you ask here.
>> >>>         Could you send a screen shot or something ?
>> >>>
>> >>>         Best,
>> >>>         Karl
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>         On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti
>> >>>         <nmingotti at gmail.com <mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>             Hi Marcel,
>> >>>
>> >>>             I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on
>> Players.
>> >>>
>> >>>             Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer
>> >>>             for a Morph !
>> >>>
>> >>>             And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the
>> >>>             big picture nor how to use it.
>> >>>
>> >>>             It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the
>> >>>             Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in
>> >>>             the World, in a tile.
>> >>>
>> >>>             bye
>> >>>             Nicola
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>             On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel
>> >>>>             <marcel.taeumel at hpi.de<mailto:marcel.taeumel at hpi.de>>
>> >>>>             wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>             >  Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>> >>>>             the Viewer window ?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>             I think you need to click on "viewer for player".
>> >>>>             Players can have scripts, which are constructed from
>> >>>>             those tiles.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>             Best,
>> >>>>             Marcel
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti
>> >>>>>             <nmingotti at gmail.com<mailto:nmingotti at gmail.com>>:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             Hi,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             Please follow these steps:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World
>> >>>>>             2] Center click over it
>> >>>>>             3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)
>> >>>>>             4] Select "Viewer for Morph"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             I see a lot of properties which I usually control via
>> >>>>>             the Workspace.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             My questions are:
>> >>>>>             -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in
>> >>>>>             the Viewer window ?
>> >>>>>             -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag
>> >>>>>             out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into
>> >>>>>             the World . So I could always check (in this case) the
>> >>>>>             center of a Morph.
>> >>>>>             -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use
>> >>>>>             all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             bye
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>             Nicola Mingotti
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
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