What does this facade buy us? How a software gets installed in the
image is software-specific unless you want to dictate a solution. We
could create SqueakMap entries for all things that have an install
button in the Trunk, but that entry would also just contain Metacello
new ...

When a piece of software changes its install or dependency management
solution, you do not really want to maintain the facade in addition to
the actual change, do you? It would be more straightforward to just
change what this particular install button does.

I see nothing to be gained from a common API for distinct dependency
management models (i. e., there is not really any integration)
https://xkcd.com/927/

Kind regards,
Jakob

Am Do., 30. Apr. 2020 um 12:37 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel
<marcel.taeumel at hpi.de>:
>
> Let's make it more concrete. I prefer sprinkle "Installer ..." calls in the system compared to "Metacello new". Here are some examples:
>
> - Adding a menu entry to the world menu such as "Git browser (click to install)"
> - Adding a list entry to the preferences wizard's "install extra packages" page such as "installOSProcess"
>
> Here is why. Installer might be just a shell to get things going; not a fully-fledged package-dependency manager. However, it can act as a nice little facade to mitigate future trade-offs. To integrate different package-dependency managers such as Monticello and Metacello for now.
>
> We need a nice place to answer the request "How can I install stuff?". Metacello is too low-level for that. So is Monticello. SqueakMap and Installer are more suited to deal with this. And they can act as thin layers above the actual dependency managers. Maybe add extra bells and whistles (e.g. convenient one-liner, screeshots, ...) -- but only to improve the user experience.
>
> Best,
> Marcel
>
> Am 30.04.2020 11:36:50 schrieb Tobias Pape <das.linux at gmx.de>:
>
>
> > On 30.04.2020, at 11:21, Marcel Taeumel wrote:
> >
> > > I think: If you want to use new Smalltalk software via Metacello, use "Metacello new ...", regardless of the Smalltalk you're using.
> >
> > From a generic Smalltalk perspective, sure. But that's not the role of Installer here. :-) Let's discuss it in a Squeak-specific way: Installer vs. SqueakMap, it is then. Metacello should not be part of that discussion. It is an external project not within the control of the Squeak community. Still, compatibility is very important. It is just a different discussion.
> >
> > Still +1 for InstallerMetacello.
>
> I don't get it then. Why Installer vs Squeakmap but then +1 for InstallerMetacello?
>
> I specifically do not want more than one method to install Metacello projects.
> -1
>
> Best regards
> -Tobias
>
> >
> > Best,
> > Marcel
> >> Am 30.04.2020 11:00:41 schrieb Tobias Pape :
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 30.04.2020, at 10:57, Marcel Taeumel wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Installer has a very big advantage: its name. That name is descriptive und discoverable. We should benefit from that and evolve Installer into something we all like. :-)
> >>
> >> This is its disadvantage: it means too many different things to different people at different levels.
> >> I hold that it is _not_ descriptive in that way :)
> >>
> >> I think: If you want to use new Smalltalk software via Metacello, use "Metacello new ...", regardless of the Smalltalk you're using.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >> -Tobias
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>