[squeak-dev] Git and Tonel (and Magritte)

Dale Henrichs dale.henrichs at gemtalksystems.com
Wed Aug 26 16:41:38 UTC 2020


When you repost, could you make sure that you include a description of 
where the time stamps are stashed ... I'm assuming that you are adding 
it to the method properties (where the category is stashed) as I think 
that this is the right place, but it's always best not to guess:)

The current crop of Tonel readers/writers do not necessarily do a good 
job of preserving, foreign data (IIRC, the convention is to add a 
platform prefix to the property name, which is the same convention used 
for class properties ... at GemStone we add a leading `gs_` to our 
property names), so until we can get all of the different Tonel 
readers/writers to preserve foreign properties (package, class and 
method) it will continue to be dicey business for preserving foreign 
properties in cross platform projects ...

Monticello does not explicitly preserve foreign properties as the 
definitions get created from the native objects, so it takes some 
additional work to arrange to preserve foreign properties for packages, 
classes, and methods in the objects themselves. So it is worth 
considering what you will do with preserving foreign properties from 
other platforms.

FWIW, I intend to support the preservation of foreign properties in 
Rowan (read that as "I haven't done that yet":)

Finally, Martin McClure has started working on a spec for the next 
generation Tonel format ... to add a few missing pieces and tweak the 
format to make it possible to continue to evolve the Tonel format into 
the future in a somewhat sane way. If there are folks here in the Squeak 
community who would like to review, comment and participate in the 
creation of the next generation format, send me (or Martin) mail and 
we'll get you added to the mailing list.


On 8/26/20 7:15 AM, Eliot Miranda wrote:
> Jakob,
>> On Aug 26, 2020, at 2:45 AM, Jakob Reschke <forums.jakob at resfarm.de> wrote:
>> Hi Eliot,
>>> Am Mi., 26. Aug. 2020 um 11:20 Uhr schrieb Eliot Miranda
>>> <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>:
>>> If we go with Tonel then we must change it to support method timestamps.  I have a change set that does this (it is a trivial change).  And my changes are controlled by a class variable so that the same code can produce Pharo format or a slightly modified format that includes method timestamps.
>>> What I don’t understand is why Esteban Lorenzano refuses to accept my changes and allow Tonel to be used either with or without method timestamps.
>> Method timestamps produce merge conflicts inevitably.
> a) only when they change, and they change only when methods change
> b) inadvertent method timestamp changes can be undone automatically
> c) Squeak uses method timestamps; we have lots of tools that use them. Dropping them just so that we can use Tonel is an example of the tail wagging the dog. The Tonel interface must instead be made to function with method timestamps
> If there is a decision not to support method timestamps then I will not support the work. This is a make or break issue for me.
>> Can you re-post
>> your changeset here?
> I’ll post it later today (reading email in bed right now).
>> https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-tonel/issues
> OK
>> Then we could
>> discuss whether to include it at least in the Squeak version. As we
>> have heard from Mariano some time ago, VA Smalltalk also puts its
>> dialect-specific metadata in the Tonel format, so Squeak would not be
>> the first to do so.
> Good.
>> Kind regards,
>> Jakob

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