Hi Christoph,

On Sun, 22 Mar 2020, Thiede, Christoph wrote:

> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Levente:
> 
> 
> > Both #isNilOr: and #notNilAnd: return a boolean value. It is possible to use these methods and ignore their return values. E.g.:
> > 
> > object ifNotNil: [ collection add: object ].
> > 
> > can be written as:
> > 
> > object isNilOr: [ collection add: object ].
> > 
> > or as:
> > 
> > object notNilAnd: [ collection add: object ].
> 
> I see your point. However, I think this would be a client problem rather than a design problem. :-)

I fully agree this is a "client problem". Have a look at the senders of 
#in: in a Trunk image (82 senders).
Most uses are entirely artifical (e.g. "I just avoid declaring a temporary 
for no reason"), some are outrageous (e.g. I don't want to use any 
temporaries, and I don't want to break the cascade chain I'm in, so I use 
various methods accepting blocks instead of separate statements just to 
write my code as a single expression"), very few are legitimate.
So, yes, we have a client problem. That is why I wrote what I wrote: 
I expect adding these would introduce more of those misuses as with #in:.


Levente

> 
> The names tell you when you should send which message. Each selector has a different semantic that is also formed by its return value. If we neglected the return value, we could also critique the following:
> 
> 
> aBoolean ifTrue: aBlock
> 
> can be written as:
> 
> aBoolean ==> aBlock
> 
> 
> The return value is significant. Otherwise, you could compare the following:
> 
> aCollection do: aBlock
> 
> aCollection collect: aBlock
> 
> aCollection select: aBlock
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Eliot:
> 
> 
> I have to apologize, you're absolutely right on ProtoObject vs. Object. Back in December, I did not yet understand the actual idea of ProtoObject. I absolutely agree with you that any extension of this kind should go to
> Object instead.
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Christoph
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Von: Squeak-dev <squeak-dev-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org> im Auftrag von Stéphane Rollandin <lecteur at zogotounga.net>
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. März 2020 09:03:42
> An: squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org
> Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] #isNilOr:, #notNilAnd:  
> > The whole point of ProtoObject is to support transparent proxies that
> > raise doesNotUnderstand: when sent any message. All the protocol in
> > ProtoObject other than doesNotUnderstand: is a colossal mistake and the
> > result of serious misunderstanding of the utility and implementation of
> > transparent forwarders.
> 
> +1
> 
> Stef
> 
> 
> 
>