On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:58 PM Vanessa Freudenberg <vanessa at codefrau.net>
wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 8:11 AM David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 02, 2021 at 02:56:49PM -0500, David T. Lewis wrote:
>> > Hi Eliot,
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 02, 2021 at 11:10:45AM -0800, Eliot Miranda wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > On Jan 2, 2021, at 8:41 AM, David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > ???Hi Vanessa,
>> > > >
>> > > >> On Fri, Jan 01, 2021 at 09:28:35PM -0800, Vanessa Freudenberg
>> wrote:
>> > > >> Hi Dave,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I haven???t actually tried it but it seems on a slow platform this
>> would
>> > > >> delay the first-time startup by however long those benchmarks
>> take, right?
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > > No, it would run at most one time per session, and then only if
>> someone
>> > > > sends #isLowerPerformance. I think thas means it would affect the
>> run time
>> > > > of the first unit test that someone runs after starting the image,
>> but
>> > > > otherwise no impact. Certainly it would not be noticable to humans.
>> > >
>> > > David, put this delay in every startup and use Squeak as a scripting
>> > > language and apply the script to every file in your home directory and
>> > > yes, it would be noticeable to humans.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I does *not* do that. Apparently I am not doing a good job of
>> explaining.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Regarding startup time, I'm afraid that my explanation did not come across
>> well in email, and I apologize for not being clear.
>>
>> Let me try once more by just quoting the code. At startup time, there is
>> a new class var SlowPlatform that is set to nil. Otherwise nothing new
>> is done during image startup processing:
>>
>> SmalltalkImage>>startUp: resuming
>>         resuming ifTrue:
>>                 [LastStats := nil.
>>                 SlowPlatform := nil.
>>                 SystemChangeNotifier uniqueInstance notify: Smalltalk
>> ofAllSystemChangesUsing: #event:]
>>
>> Later on, the class var is lazy initialized if and only if someone needs
>> to check for isLowerPerformance:
>>
>> SmalltalkImage>>isLowerPerformance
>>         "Some operations - TestCases for example - need an idea of the
>> typical performance
>>         of the system on which they are being performed."
>>         ^ SlowPlatform
>>                 ifNil: [ SlowPlatform := (Time millisecondsToRun:[ 25
>> benchFib ]) > 200
>>                         or: [ (Time millisecondsToRun: [ 64 benchmark ])
>> > 200 ]]
>>
>> That's all I meant to suggest.
>>
>> Sorry for the confusion,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> you are correct for someone who prepares an image that they use over and
> over again.
>
> However, for someone using a fresh image that was just created using
> ReleaseBuilder, there will be a isLowerPerformance send on startup (via
> ReleaseBuilder class>>startUp: with a DeferredTask set by
> prepareEnvironment to open the PreferenceWizardMorph which uses its
> own hasLowPerformance method to try to make things faster).
>
> Compare this 5.3 image with disabled wizard:
>
>
> https://squeak.js.org/run/#url=https://freudenbergs.de/vanessa/squeakjs&zip=[Squeak5.3-19452-64bit.zip,SqueakV50.sources.zip]&wizard=false
>
> to the latest trunk (very slow because Sista so no JIT):
>
>
> https://squeak.js.org/run/#zip=https://files.squeak.org/6.0alpha/Squeak6.0alpha-20147-32bit/Squeak6.0alpha-20147-32bit.zip
>
> and that even has isLowerPerformance = true because we did fix the
> platform name check!
>
> If it was using your code then the "Time millisecondsToRun:[ 25 benchFib
> ]" would add 600 ms to the startup. Luckily it would bypass the "Time
> millisecondsToRun: [ 64 benchmark ]" which would take 4 seconds.
>
> So I'm in favor of Levente's idea, he proposed this:
>
> | vmStartTime uptime |
> vmStartTime := Smalltalk vmParameterAt: 20.
> uptime := vmStartTime ~= 0 "utcMicrosecondClock at startup in later Spur
> VMs"
>         ifTrue: [Time utcMicrosecondClock - vmStartTime + 500 // 1000]
>         ifFalse: [Time eventMillisecondClock].
>
> ... which works in SqueakJS because of the eventMillisecondClock fallback
> (vmParameter 20 is 0).
>
> We just would have to decide where in the startup sequence to put this
> check, which is slightly tricky. An obvious place would be in
> #recordStartupStamp - I just tried it:
>
> recordStartupStamp
>       | vmStartTime |
>       vmStartTime := Smalltalk vmParameterAt: 20.
>       StartupTime := vmStartTime ~= 0 "utcMicrosecondClock at startup in
> later Spur VMs"
>             ifTrue: [Time utcMicrosecondClock - vmStartTime + 500 // 1000]
>             ifFalse: [Time eventMillisecondClock].
>       StartupStamp := '----STARTUP----', Time dateAndTimeNow printString,
> ' as ', self imageName.
>
> ... and StartupTime is about 3000 ms.
>

Gob smacked.  This is embarrassing.  This needs to be a preference.  I
don't mind it being on by default.  But I think both STARTUP and QUIT/No
SAVE stamps need to be optional.  I for one find it really annoying that
QUIT/No SAVE stamps are added when nothing has occurred (a pain if one's
image is under version control, for example).  So I find myself using the
Mac's Force Quit, or ctrl-c on the command line.

> Then isLowerPerformance would become
>
>       ^StartupTime > LowerPerformanceThreshold
>
> where LowerPerformanceThreshold would maybe default to 500? What's the
> StartupTime of e.g. a raspberry pi?
>
> Vanessa
>


-- 
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
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