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<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It's
possible to add all sorts of crazy stuff, but I think one has to have a goal
first. Research ? Fun ? Use as a lower layer of something else ?
etc</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In my
case, I wanted to use it as a base to program actors/agents. I wanted a
different form of communication instead of pure message passing. We used it to
build Agora, an educational software where games etc could be prototyped. All
implemented on Smalltalk/V 286 with Acumen Widgets, using a different metaphor
for communication, implemented on top of Lindatalk.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So, I
guess it's necesary to "have a customer" first, to drive the goals &
features. And, as usual, KISS.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>marcio</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Rob
Withers<BR><B>Sent:</B> August 22, 2001 3:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
LindaTalk<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes, it has been educational for me. I
initially tore it apart pretty badly, then went back and only changed just a
few things. The match: algorithm and added a collection api. The
new EventTupleSpace, which is not in the version on the CD, uses an async
message sending mechanism to generate events during access (read, take, write,
scan).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I looked briefly at unification, in Lisp, to
attempt to bring this to LindaTalk, but I quickly ran out of steam.
Another idea was expressed where we can use a TupleSpace as a parser, adding
token rules and grammar productions, then streaming input into the
space. I believe it would just act as a state machine, where matches for
particular productions would transition the parser state, allowing other
productions to be matched. I was to the point where I thought there
might be a context tuple, which contains the current state, and it would
be taken, modified, then written, by the productions (eval actions).
It's complicated!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Welcome home! ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rob</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mqm@magma.ca href="mailto:mqm@magma.ca">Marcio Marchini</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 22, 2001 1:02
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules] Unloading and
Conflicting Versions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>It's nice to see LindaTalk surviving all these years, in one way or
another... :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Hopefully I'll get around to doing more Squeak from now on, we'll
see. I'll then take a look at it ;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Keep up the good work !!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>marcio</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
[mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B>
Withers, Robert<BR><B>Sent:</B> August 21, 2001 10:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules]
Unloading and Conflicting Versions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001>That's where I saw it. Thanks,
Marcio. By the way, did you notice that LindaTalk is on the new
Squeak CD? I have many changes to it, mainly the EventTupleSpace and
recursive tuple matching, but it isn't quite ready. I can send it to
you if you would like.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001>cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001>Rob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Marcio Marchini
[mailto:marcio@bedarra.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 21, 2001
2:55 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Withers, Robert;
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>
modsqueak@bluefish.se<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules] Unloading and
Conflicting Versions<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/31">http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/31</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=705445418-21082001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>marcio</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Withers, Robert
[mailto:rwithers@quallaby.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> August 21, 2001 2:21
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org'<BR><B>Cc:</B>
modsqueak@bluefish.se<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules] Unloading and
Conflicting Versions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Dave, could you please repost these links? I
couldn't find them in the squeak ML archives.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>thank you,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Rob</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> From: Dave [<A
href="mailto:dave@bedarra.com">mailto:dave@bedarra.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:06 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> To: Les Tyrrell</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Cc:
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org; modsqueak@bluefish.se</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> Subject: Re: [Modules] Unloading and Conflicting
Versions</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> 1. The mechanism for unloading is indeed
a good deal more complex than</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> loading and
was one of the throny problems OTI had to address in</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> building embedded Smalltalk and Java. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Perhaps the issue of
unloading is something to be deferred until after</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> the basic module and component mechanisms are defined and
tested? </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> 2.
To my knowledge the only existing system that supports current</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> execution of multiple versions classes/methods
is MS.NET with their</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> assemblies. This
itself gets problematic however if you want to run</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> shared assemblies. I posted the references earlier for
those </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> interested</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> in the problem. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
Dave</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Les Tyrrell wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > ----- Original
Message -----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > From: Dan Moniz
<dnm@pobox.com></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
> I'm imagining that when you file in a ChangeSet (let's
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> say Foo.cs)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> > into your image (Bar.image), your image is
writing out </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> information to</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > > it's Bar.changes file that
reflect the things Foo.cs is </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> doing to
your</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > > image. Then,
to back out, you could use a currently </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
fictional "Undo"</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > >
feature which would allow you to back up steps as recorded in</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > > Bar.changes</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > There are
a few things that would need to be done when </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> unloading a module. For</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> one, you would like a rapid way of gc'ing or otherwise
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> mutating any instances</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > defined by that module. Then, you will want a
rapid way of </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> removing the</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > definitions found in that module.
ChangeSets are no </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> better, and no worse,
at</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > doing this than any other
scheme. There is no need to </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> iterate
over a change</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > log- the ChangeSet
already has an accounting of what it has </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
modified. So would</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > an
OasisModule, or a Collage Layer.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > However, while associating a
ChangeSet with either a </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Collage Layer or
an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > OasisModule seems reasonable to
me, trying to warp </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> ChangeSet into
becoming more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > like these things does
not seem reasonable.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > > This may
necessitate modifications to userland tools to </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> deal with</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
> .changes file, and perhaps some modification to the
information</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > > and/or
format of information stored in .changes files, </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> but I don't</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
> think it would be too drastic and I don't think it
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> would have much</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > > with the implementation of
ChangeSets themselves.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > What's wrong with the idea of
implementing the roles of a </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Components
and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > Modules? In Oasis, a
Module is a component that keeps </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> track of
Shared Globals,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > Undeclared
variables, Pools, and a few other things. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> ChangeSets don't do this.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > The role of a changeset is to
keep track of changes... the </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> role of
an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > OasisModule is to act as a place
in which those changes </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> take effect.
These are</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > separate roles, so I would
not reccomend mixing them. </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
ChangeSets are just fine</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > the way
they are, at least in the sense of the scoping of </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> their responsibilities</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
to tracking changes, and no more.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > Using ChangeSets as a means of
identifying chunks of code </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> to turn into a
package</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > is another issue, as far as
I know there is nothing wrong with that.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > - les</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
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