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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=257264016-22082001>Exactly right...I have been enamoured with researching
it's capabilities, to a certain extent (parser, unification, trellis).
However, the primary reason I picked it up was to use as a distributed
communications mechanism, with Store-and-Forward and arbitrary message
structures supporting pattern matching. Do you have a link to Agora?
The ability to match based on content is a powerful enabler for quickly
prototyping communications mechanisms and protocols. I wanted it to be
eventful, so a client could register callbacks. It should also be
asynchronous, to support concurrency. Finally, I am interested in it being
remote, thus requiring object serialization. It supports all but the last
at this time.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=257264016-22082001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=257264016-22082001>The
new EventTupleSpace is much more KISS, although depending on an async messaging
implementation. it will take this weekend to dig it out and finish the
latest refactoring.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=257264016-22082001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=257264016-22082001>-
Rob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=257264016-22082001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=257264016-22082001>PS. the most incredible realization, that John
Sarkala mentioned to me, was that every object in the squeak environment
is a tuple with a particular arity. Would it be possible to
implement an Interpreter and ObjectMemory using a
TupleSpace?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Marcio Marchini
[mailto:mqm@magma.ca]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 22, 2001 11:47
AM<BR><B>To:</B> squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
LindaTalk<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>It's
possible to add all sorts of crazy stuff, but I think one has to have a goal
first. Research ? Fun ? Use as a lower layer of something else ?
etc</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>In
my case, I wanted to use it as a base to program actors/agents. I wanted a
different form of communication instead of pure message passing. We used it to
build Agora, an educational software where games etc could be prototyped. All
implemented on Smalltalk/V 286 with Acumen Widgets, using a different metaphor
for communication, implemented on top of Lindatalk.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>So,
I guess it's necesary to "have a customer" first, to drive the goals &
features. And, as usual, KISS.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=720034315-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>marcio</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Rob
Withers<BR><B>Sent:</B> August 22, 2001 3:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
LindaTalk<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes, it has been educational for me. I
initially tore it apart pretty badly, then went back and only changed just a
few things. The match: algorithm and added a collection api. The
new EventTupleSpace, which is not in the version on the CD, uses an async
message sending mechanism to generate events during access (read, take,
write, scan).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I looked briefly at unification, in Lisp, to
attempt to bring this to LindaTalk, but I quickly ran out of steam.
Another idea was expressed where we can use a TupleSpace as a parser, adding
token rules and grammar productions, then streaming input into the
space. I believe it would just act as a state machine, where matches
for particular productions would transition the parser state, allowing other
productions to be matched. I was to the point where I thought there
might be a context tuple, which contains the current state, and it
would be taken, modified, then written, by the productions (eval
actions). It's complicated!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Welcome home! ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rob</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A href="mailto:mqm@magma.ca" title=mqm@magma.ca>Marcio Marchini</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org"
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 22, 2001 1:02
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules] Unloading and
Conflicting Versions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>It's nice to see LindaTalk surviving all these years, in one way or
another... :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>Hopefully I'll get around to doing more Squeak from now on, we'll
see. I'll then take a look at it ;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>Keep up the good work !!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=894095704-22082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>marcio</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
[mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B>
Withers, Robert<BR><B>Sent:</B> August 21, 2001 10:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules]
Unloading and Conflicting Versions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001>That's where I saw it. Thanks,
Marcio. By the way, did you notice that LindaTalk is on the new
Squeak CD? I have many changes to it, mainly the EventTupleSpace
and recursive tuple matching, but it isn't quite ready. I can send
it to you if you would like.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001>cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=409214302-22082001>Rob</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Marcio Marchini
[mailto:marcio@bedarra.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 21, 2001
2:55 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Withers, Robert;
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>
modsqueak@bluefish.se<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules] Unloading and
Conflicting Versions<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/31">http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/squeakfoundation/31</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=705445418-21082001><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial
size=2>marcio</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Withers, Robert
[mailto:rwithers@quallaby.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> August 21, 2001 2:21
PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org'<BR><B>Cc:</B>
modsqueak@bluefish.se<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Modules] Unloading and
Conflicting Versions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Dave, could you please repost these links? I
couldn't find them in the squeak ML archives.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>thank you,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Rob</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>> -----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> From: Dave [<A
href="mailto:dave@bedarra.com">mailto:dave@bedarra.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:06 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> To: Les Tyrrell</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
Cc: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org;
modsqueak@bluefish.se</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Subject: Re:
[Modules] Unloading and Conflicting Versions</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> 1. The mechanism for unloading is indeed a good deal
more complex than</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> loading and was one
of the throny problems OTI had to address in</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> building embedded Smalltalk and Java. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Perhaps the issue of
unloading is something to be deferred until after</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> the basic module and component mechanisms are defined
and tested? </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> 2. To my knowledge the only existing system that
supports current</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> execution of multiple
versions classes/methods is MS.NET with their</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> assemblies. This itself gets problematic however if you
want to run</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> shared assemblies. I posted
the references earlier for those </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
interested</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> in the problem.
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> Dave</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> Les Tyrrell wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > ----- Original Message
-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > From: Dan Moniz
<dnm@pobox.com></FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
> I'm imagining that when you file in a ChangeSet (let's
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> say Foo.cs)</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > > into your image (Bar.image), your
image is writing out </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> information
to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > > it's
Bar.changes file that reflect the things Foo.cs is </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> doing to your</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> > image. Then, to back out, you could use a
currently </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> fictional "Undo"</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > > feature which would
allow you to back up steps as recorded in</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > > Bar.changes</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > There are a few
things that would need to be done when </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
unloading a module. For</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > one,
you would like a rapid way of gc'ing or otherwise </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> mutating any instances</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
defined by that module. Then, you will want a rapid way of
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> removing the</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > definitions found in that module. ChangeSets
are no </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> better, and no worse, at</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > doing this than any other scheme.
There is no need to </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> iterate over a
change</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > log- the ChangeSet already
has an accounting of what it has </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
modified. So would</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > an
OasisModule, or a Collage Layer.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > However, while associating a
ChangeSet with either a </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Collage Layer
or an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > OasisModule seems reasonable
to me, trying to warp </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> ChangeSet into
becoming more</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > like these things
does not seem reasonable.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > > This may
necessitate modifications to userland tools to </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> deal with</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
> .changes file, and perhaps some modification to the
information</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > >
and/or format of information stored in .changes files,
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> but I don't</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > > think it would be too drastic and
I don't think it </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> would have much</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>> > > with the implementation
of ChangeSets themselves.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > What's wrong with the idea of
implementing the roles of a </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> Components
and</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > Modules? In Oasis, a
Module is a component that keeps </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> track
of Shared Globals,</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > Undeclared
variables, Pools, and a few other things. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> ChangeSets don't do this.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > The role of a changeset is to
keep track of changes... the </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> role of
an</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > OasisModule is to act as a
place in which those changes </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> take
effect. These are</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > separate
roles, so I would not reccomend mixing them. </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> ChangeSets are just fine</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>>
> the way they are, at least in the sense of the scoping of
</FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> their responsibilities</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > to tracking changes, and no more.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>> > </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>> > Using ChangeSets
as a means of identifying chunks of code </FONT><BR><FONT
size=2>> to turn into a package</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> >
is another issue, as far as I know there is nothing wrong with
that.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> > </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
> - les</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>> </FONT><BR><FONT size=2>>
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