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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Justin Walsh
[mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au]<BR><B>Sent:</B> zaterdag 3 november 2001
10:35<BR><B>To:</B> squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Three Threads Of Squeak<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Ger</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now that Jim Benson has given up stalking me I
can get back to re-reading your emails again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Owing to the fact that each time I scan them I
see a different nuance. Your language does require a bit of study to get
your exact meaning. Please don't feel you have to change anything it is
up to me to adjust my tuning that is all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>I read the url about levels and concluded,
that like CRC, it is missing the point. It is returning from the "wilds"
of Networking, Peer to Peer, to the traditional (disliked ) MIS (hierarchical)
Structure-Function Model. <BR><SPAN class=340391915-03112001><FONT
color=#0000ff>[ger: What I mean by leveling is that you, as designer are
handling qeustions of different quality on each level, but that the
consequences of change are not only going from top to bottom: during the
construction of the details of a taskset, You gain new insight that could
change your design decisions on higher levels completely: how to handle that
in a tool in a flexible way, that is the only thing i mean with
yo-yo] </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=340391915-03112001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=340391915-03112001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This may not be what you mean by Yo Yo but, this
trend looks like it to me: Yo Yo-ing between both methods. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Charles used to pride himself of the fact that he
combined both the methodologies in his <STRONG>HierNet</STRONG> (a hierarchy
riding on to of a network).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I refused to accept that interpretation: It
contradicted Kants understanding of the "<STRONG>Separation of
Powers</STRONG>" and which is even anchored in European Social
law.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is only recently that Charles has come to
agree with me. He is maturing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>He now regard his <STRONG>Purpose</STRONG>
Statement or <STRONG>Goals</STRONG> to be more significant than he had first
thought.<BR><SPAN class=340391915-03112001><FONT color=#0000ff>[ger: setting a
goal on the highest level does not always mean that you want to reach that
goal when your knowledge grows... You evaluate your original goal against the
new information and set again your goal... if you are lucky it ends up as
stepwise refinement, but if your goal is to far out of scope, you have somehow
to start over...</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=340391915-03112001><FONT
color=#0000ff>How difficult that is when you are already begun: here comes the
famous de Bono puzzle in.. How can a tool inspire someone to look at the
growing problemspace from another point of view and find a better
way..]</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN class=340391915-03112001><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The <STRONG>HierNet</STRONG> is <STRONG>much
more</STRONG> than just the <STRONG>manifold</STRONG> of three
levels:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>1</STRONG>.) Concept,
<STRONG>2</STRONG>.)Logistics, <STRONG>3</STRONG>.)Physical<STRONG>;</STRONG>
(the manifest <STRONG>CONDITION</STRONG> of their <STRONG>tripartheit
struggle</STRONG>).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is <STRONG>0</STRONG>.) <STRONG>Unity</STRONG>
(of all of these three Concepts into one absolute whole).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This <STRONG>Unity is Absolute</STRONG>,
Totality, <STRONG>CONDITION-less.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>Ger ! I cannot stress enough the
importance of the concept of the Absolute for it is Reasons only task: to
bring this <STRONG>Systematic Unity</STRONG> to our awareness and appreciate
the <STRONG>Idea of Freedom</STRONG> itself. The children of this
powerfull Absolute Idea are <STRONG>CAUSE and EFFECT</STRONG>.<BR><SPAN
class=340391915-03112001><FONT color=#0000ff>[ger: Papert and others like
children to invent the wheel again, coming to the Thrue on their own.
Opponents tell a joke about a child that does setup a test to prove that a fly
hears with his elbows: "I say to a fly jump and he jumps, then I take away his
legs and when he say jump he no longer jumps, becuase he cannot hear me
anymore.." I preferr the scaffolding approach of the original Montessori: How
can we arange a learning situation and construct materials in such a way, that
it elicits wondering in the student, who starts activities that lead
to new knowledge. ] </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Do you see what I mean? Why Kant is such a
great thinker and not a mere philosopher.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We are now able to build your dream
Ger.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Today. because we finally understand
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ciao</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Justin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=G.J.Tielemans@dinkel.utwente.nl
href="mailto:G.J.Tielemans@dinkel.utwente.nl">G.J.Tielemans@dinkel.utwente.nl</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:59
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: Three Threads Of
Squeak</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Following the link to of Alan in another discussion, I
found on the website of Mitchel Resnick <A
href="http://www.media.mit.edu/~mres/">http://www.media.mit.edu/~mres/</A> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>nice examples of active essays <A
href="http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/circles/">http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/el/projects/circles/</A> this
time in StarLogo (you need a plugin)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001></SPAN><SPAN
class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
also took a look in his article list and found one that hits my current
problem: </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>"How to create a design interface for
non-technical (and technical!) professors that facilitates
them during the construction of educational learning settings"
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Not only courses, but also for problem based learning, cases,
virtual companies, project group approaches etc.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>For courses we had a successful prototype, I earlier refereed to:
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://130.89.152.133:8888/EducationalDesign/uploads/2/TeletopLearningRevised.doc">http://130.89.152.133:8888/EducationalDesign/uploads/2/TeletopLearningRevised.doc</A>
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>What these designers (as normal problem solvers?) want to
do is all these things together.. surfing between levels in
their design space..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>What I need most is a tool that helps them to differentiate (VISUAL !
!) between these levels and the different things you do on these levels with
the possibility to go back and forth during design. Made me cry: "I need a
yo-yo-editor!"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>This leveling focus I did find in this article, made me
rethink..</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A
href="http://www.ccl.sesp.northwestern.edu/cm/papers/levels/levels.html">http://www.ccl.sesp.northwestern.edu/cm/papers/levels/levels.html</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
think you refer also to these levels during design, and give them common
sense names. thanks, I will work further on that
idea. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>===========================</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>We, people of ten Dutch Universities
and Colleges united in "Dutch Digitale Universiteit" are working
on the adaptation of an Educational Markup Language, designed by the
Dutch Open University. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It is offered to the IMS learning design
group to become a subset of the IMS standards (Of course are their other
candidates for this)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Core of this EML is to deliver an XML based, platform
independent description tool for educational arrangements, ending
up in Learning Design Specifications, not only a tree of related resources
but also descriptions (Not prescriptions!) of conditions (also
nested) that can be followed by the runtime system when you unfold
it there.... Maps to Alan's idea of "extreme late educational
binding"?)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>(for the DTD of EML 1.0 see: htttp://eml.ou.nl)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>One of the activities is to design authoring tools for
people who are not used to read XML-tree's on a daily base and
still being in control of the levels of design. More
Tips? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=255591410-01112001></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=255591410-01112001><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=255591410-01112001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=255591410-01112001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=255591410-01112001> </SPAN>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Justin Walsh
[mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001
11:06 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads
Of Squeak<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Missing attachment</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jwalsh@bigpond.net.au href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin
Walsh</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001
8:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Three Threads Of
Squeak</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Building professional software is like
building a, building:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Three stages:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Concept requires
Designer ~ ideas</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Logistic
requires Architect ~ concepts</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Construct
requires Builder ~
objects</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>One tool, three threads. Designers don't lay
bricks and Brickies don't design buildings.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There are those that just like playing so the
above order doesnt matter unless the play is a professional activity. In
that case more threads may be added to the list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is not productive to confuse these
different threads. It leads to insult and counter insult.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Generally speaking anyone who has ever been a
designer will understand the role of policy, philosopy, religion: in some
countries if the building faces the wrong direction nobody will live or
work in it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anybody who has ever been a brickie will
understand the role of initiate, inventiveness, imagination ie most of the
tools we find at the floor level have been created by workers "laying
bricks" or to stretch a metaphor, "writing code".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sandwiched in between are the Logicians who
use yet another set of tools to ensure that Designs correspond with
Objects (of design).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We don't have to like, understand,
accept, .., each other. Just respect each other.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Each has a different vision for Smalltalk
that is all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Attached is one person view on the
matter</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>