<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Three Threads Of Squeak</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<STYLE type=text/css>BLOCKQUOTE {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
DL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
UL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
OL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
LI {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
</STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For the sake of accuracy would someone, who
has seen that article, please point me to it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I really would like to know whether, what I have
read in various disclosures, about Smalltalk being merely the
result of "bits n pieces", patched together, guided by Alan Kays visionary Idea
of Dynbook and significant (empirical) Conceptual discoveries from various
universities and private companies.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Justin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Alan.Kay@squeakland.org href="mailto:Alan.Kay@squeakland.org">Alan
Kay</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 05, 2001 1:55
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of
Squeak</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I wasn't talking about Squeak per se, but only about this round of
explorations into children's programming. I think the base of Squeak (and the
children's stuff could be a lot better).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Alan</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>At 12:43 AM +0000 11/5/01, Gary McGovern wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT size=-1>One thing is Justin, Squeak
has already been designed. According to an article that was linked to
this list a few of months ago, an article that covered Squeak Central
leaving Disney, it mentioned that 95% of the design made
by Alan had been accomplished.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT size=-1>Based on that, I don't see
how the design of Squeak itself can be an issue for discussion. Wouldn't
those matters be for Squeak Central to figure out? (Exception: Unless anyone
was up to the job of producing their own offshoot).</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT
size=-1>Regards,</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT size=-1>Gary</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message -----</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin
Walsh</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 03, 2001 1:15 AM</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of Squeak</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>For those people who reply to me directly: I
don't really have any other layout to offer (at this place and time) than
the Hierarchy/Network model that was offered
earlier</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Concept
Hierarch level 1 or Think</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Logical Hierarch
level 2 or Think/Do</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Physical
Hierarch level 3 or Do</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>and</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Play
peer to peer This I consider the realm of the
"Autonomous" Object or Virus.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>I have cut from another public email, to
myself, a reply which, I think, expects me to decide which
thread it belongs to.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>I have an opinion but, to avoid controversy,
I reproduce it here again for the readers of this thread to respectfully,
analyse, remembering that the content not the person is
relevant.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>The attached pdf demonstrates at least one
others point of view. </FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Justin,<BR><BR>In this OS as Squeak Schema you describe, how
do you answer this question?<BR><BR>If a hen and a half lays an egg and a
half in a day and a half, how many<BR>waffles does it take to cover a dog
house?<BR><BR>Jim</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Is it technically feasible for say, a
list like this one, on command, to be sorted on the above 4
(?)</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>threads?</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Currently on Open Outlook I only
have: From, Subject and Receive.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message -----<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin
Walsh</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:05 PM</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of Squeak</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Missing attachment</FONT></TT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message -----</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin
Walsh</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:04
PM</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Subject:</B> Three Threads Of Squeak</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Building professional software is like
building a, building:</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Three stages:</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Concept requires<SPAN></SPAN>
Designer ~ ideas</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Logistic
requires Architect ~ concepts</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Construct
requires Builder ~
objects</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>One tool, three threads. Designers don't
lay bricks and Brickies don't design
buildings.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>There are those that just like playing
so the above order doesnt matter unless the play is a professional
activity. In that case more threads may be added to the
list.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>It is not productive to confuse these
different threads. It leads to insult and counter
insult.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Generally speaking anyone who has ever
been a designer will understand the role of policy, philosopy,
religion: in some countries if the building faces the wrong direction
nobody will live or work in it.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Anybody who has ever been a brickie
will understand the role of initiate, inventiveness, imagination ie
most of the tools we find at the floor level have been created by
workers "laying bricks" or to stretch a metaphor, "writing
code".</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Sandwiched in between are the Logicians
who use yet another set of tools to ensure that Designs correspond
with Objects (of design).</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>We don't have to like, understand,
accept, .., each other. Just respect each
other.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Each has a different vision for
Smalltalk that is all.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Attached is one person view on the
matter</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>--
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></X-SIGSEP></BODY></HTML>