<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Three Threads Of Squeak</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<STYLE type=text/css>BLOCKQUOTE {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
DL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
UL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
OL {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
LI {
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px
}
</STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>yes I thought so.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jb@speed.net href="mailto:jb@speed.net">Jim Benson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 07, 2001 11:16
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OT]Three Threads Of
Squeak</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>yes</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jwalsh@bigpond.net.au href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin
Walsh</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:45
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of
Squeak</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Can somebody please tell me why this thread has
been effectively been garbaged.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anybody wishing to read previous contributions
will find it pretty well impossible to read them owing to the fact that they
gradually diminish to one word per line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If it is to save space then how?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Or is it merely to maliciously guide people
away from the "Three Thread Of Squeak</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
size=2>" topic,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>by using, as bait a prominant
name.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation,
perhaps the yahooligans are back in town or maybe I'm just paranoid or
technically ignorant.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Alan.Kay@squeakland.org
href="mailto:Alan.Kay@squeakland.org">Alan Kay</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 05, 2001 1:55
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of
Squeak</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I wasn't talking about Squeak per se, but only about this round of
explorations into children's programming. I think the base of Squeak (and
the children's stuff could be a lot better).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Alan</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>At 12:43 AM +0000 11/5/01, Gary McGovern wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT size=-1>One thing is Justin,
Squeak has already been designed. According to an article that was
linked to this list a few of months ago, an article that covered
Squeak Central leaving Disney, it mentioned that 95% of the design made
by Alan had been accomplished.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT size=-1>Based on that, I don't
see how the design of Squeak itself can be an issue for discussion.
Wouldn't those matters be for Squeak Central to figure out? (Exception:
Unless anyone was up to the job of producing their own
offshoot).</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT
size=-1>Regards,</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><TT><FONT
size=-1>Gary</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message -----</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin
Walsh</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 03, 2001 1:15
AM</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of Squeak</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>For those people who reply to me
directly: I don't really have any other layout to offer (at this place
and time) than the Hierarchy/Network model that was offered
earlier</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Concept
Hierarch level 1 or Think</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Logical
Hierarch level 2 or Think/Do</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Physical
Hierarch level 3 or Do</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>and</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Play
peer to peer This I consider the realm of the
"Autonomous" Object or Virus.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>I have cut from another public email, to
myself, a reply which, I think, expects me to decide which
thread it belongs to.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>I have an opinion but, to avoid
controversy, I reproduce it here again for the readers of this thread
to respectfully, analyse, remembering that the content not the person
is relevant.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>The attached pdf demonstrates at least
one others point of view. </FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>Justin,<BR><BR>In this OS as Squeak Schema you describe,
how do you answer this question?<BR><BR>If a hen and a half lays an
egg and a half in a day and a half, how many<BR>waffles does it take
to cover a dog house?<BR><BR>Jim</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Is it technically feasible for say,
a list like this one, on command, to be sorted on the above 4
(?)</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>threads?</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Currently on Open Outlook I only
have: From, Subject and
Receive.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message -----<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin Walsh</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:05
PM</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Subject:</B> Re: Three Threads Of Squeak</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Missing attachment</FONT></TT><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>----- Original Message -----</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:jwalsh@bigpond.net.au">Justin Walsh</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>To:</B> <A
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 01, 2001 8:04
PM</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><B>Subject:</B> Three Threads Of Squeak</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Building professional software is
like building a, building:</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Three stages:</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Concept requires<SPAN></SPAN>
Designer ~ ideas</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Logistic
requires Architect ~
concepts</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT
size=-1>Construct
requires Builder ~
objects</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>One tool, three threads. Designers
don't lay bricks and Brickies don't design
buildings.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>There are those that just like
playing so the above order doesnt matter unless the play is a
professional activity. In that case more threads may be added to
the list.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>It is not productive to confuse
these different threads. It leads to insult and counter
insult.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Generally speaking anyone who has
ever been a designer will understand the role of policy,
philosopy, religion: in some countries if the building faces the
wrong direction nobody will live or work in
it.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Anybody who has ever been
a brickie will understand the role of initiate,
inventiveness, imagination ie most of the tools we find at the
floor level have been created by workers "laying bricks" or to
stretch a metaphor, "writing code".</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Sandwiched in between are the
Logicians who use yet another set of tools to ensure that Designs
correspond with Objects (of design).</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>We don't have to like, understand,
accept, .., each other. Just respect each
other.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Each has a different vision for
Smalltalk that is all.</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1></FONT></TT> </BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><TT><FONT size=-1>Attached is one person view on the
matter</FONT></TT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>--
</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></X-SIGSEP></BODY></HTML>