<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/4/24 Norbert Hartl <<a href="mailto:norbert@hartl.name">norbert@hartl.name</a>>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 11:23 +1000, Edward Stow wrote:<br>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Norbert Hartl <<a href="mailto:norbert@hartl.name">norbert@hartl.name</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 08:20 +1000, Edward Stow wrote:<br>
> > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez<br>
> > > <<a href="mailto:m.coba.m@gmail.com">m.coba.m@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > I use squeak inside a chroot as per instructions here:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > <a href="http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html" target="_blank">http://alioth.debian.org/docman/view.php/30192/21/debian-amd64-howto.html</a><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > as there is no 64 bit perfect setup for squeak<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > I installed squeak inside the chroot with the repositories from <a href="http://squeak.org" target="_blank">squeak.org</a><br>
> > > > (section other OSes)<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > hope this help<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Yes is does -- it does confirm that a simple install is not available<br>
> > > for amd64 architecture. By simple, I mean sudo apt-get install<br>
> > > squeak.<br>
> ><br>
> > > And it doesn't. I have a hard time convincing my sys admins and their<br>
> > > bosses to take seriously a package that does not have a<br>
> > > straightforward install process on 64 bit machines.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > chroot'ing in their words is for 'legacy and un-supported systems that<br>
> > > should not be installed on a production server.'<br>
> > ><br>
> > > I am trying to set up a demonstration server that will allow squeak<br>
> > > with seaside to be considered a viable alternative. I should say that<br>
> > > I'm not a sys admin and am feeling very frustrated with the lack of<br>
> > > installable options.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > So please ... could those that maintain the debian and / or other os<br>
> > > vms create an installable 64 bit deb and / or rpm.<br>
> > ><br>
> ><br>
> > At the moment there is no packaged version which does compile on amd64.<br>
> > Otherwise it would be quite simple to create such a package. You can run<br>
> > 32 bit applications on 64 bit but on a debian package level this is not<br>
> > an easy task to achieve.<br>
> ><br>
> > If you want to setup an demonstration server why you don't take the<br>
> > installer script which comes with the vm package on <a href="http://squeakvm.org" target="_blank">squeakvm.org</a> ? This<br>
> > installs the 32bit binaries on your machine.<br>
> ><br>
> > I created a package for you which is a amd64 target ubuntu package which<br>
> > contains the binaries from the 3.10.1 i686 package from squeakvm.org.[1]<br>
> > It installs into /opt/squeak. You can use use<br>
> ><br>
> > /opt/squeak/bin/squeakvm YOUR-IMAGE<br>
> ><br>
> > to start squeak. Don't be misled by the ubuntu in the package name. It<br>
> > should install on debian as well.<br>
> ><br>
> > Let me know if you have trouble using it.<br>
> ><br>
> > [1] <a href="http://selfish.org/files/deb/squeak-vm-i686_0.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb" target="_blank">http://selfish.org/files/deb/squeak-vm-i686_0.1ubuntu1_amd64.deb</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Norbert<br>
><br>
> Thanks that works.<br>
><br>
> But this is really a plea --- My guess is that 95% of potential users<br>
> would have stopped by now when apt-get install does not work.<br>
><br>
</div></div>Yes, sure it is. For the desktop side of the software the barrier is<br>
lowered with the one-click experience images.<br>
To be honest. How far will you get on a server if an easy installation<br>
is your barrier? squeak does not provide any start/stop scripts for the<br>
image. There is no maintenance scripts nor is there logging. You have<br>
to know your software in order to use it properly. You are right I often<br>
wish, too, that some things are achievable easier. But that includes the<br>
configuration of a apache/tomcat webserver, too.<br>
If you pass all this you still have to beat your sys admins. And that is<br>
a hard task :) Taking your arguments (from the sys ads) and my<br>
assumption that you are using java server stuff there is a huge gap.<br>
They say "un-supported" and they use debian which is an OS which is not<br>
supported. You should use ubuntu for that. They care about production<br>
systems and they use a 64 bit OS version. There are really less needs to<br>
have a 64 bit OS nowadays but there are still some problems. If I care<br>
about stability I use 32 bit these days. Are you using java? Java on 64<br>
bit linux systems is just not stable. Openjdk is getting there slowly<br>
but it is IMHO not production ready. So I assume you use the 32 bit<br>
ones. Then were is the difference? That in debian there is package which<br>
installs you "legacy" 32 bit code on your 64 bit platform. That is<br>
exactly what my package does. If a lot of people think this is a way to<br>
go I would maintain such a package for some time.<br>
</blockquote><div><br><br>I may not have explain it well: the package in Debian is a pure 64 bits package.<br><br>I can not understand the reasons for your answer or the reason of this thread: in an Debian lenny/sid amd64 machine: "apt-get install squeak-vm" just works.<br>
<br><br>Regards.<br><br></div></div><br>