<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Igor Stasenko <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:siguctua@gmail.com">siguctua@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
The main reason, which prevents squeak to use as embedded solution is<br>
a structure of VM.<br>
- there are many points when it assuming that it runs standalone<br>
- the main interpret() function is an endless loop and not reentrant,<br>
which makes it hard to interoperate with host process , like Lua does.<br>
recent updates added a callbacks, so they can be used as a kind of<br>
workaround to solve that issue.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I either solved these issues or found they were non-issues in the context of VisualWorks in 1997/98 and made it function as a Web browser plugin. I used my threaded FFI that allows different threads to call-in and out of the VM, so that the Smalltalk image was fully active all the time even when the browser was not calling into it. The VM was loadable as a DLL and was supplied with an image file (which can be embedded as data, e.g. in a Windows exe's resources) in an init call which returns once the image as loaded. The entry-points in the DLL can then be called from code that has loaded the DLL. Inside these entry-points are rendezvous-style call-backs that the single-threaded Vm responds to.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think (ok, know) the issue is not the image but the lack of a threaded FFI.</div><div><br></div><div>For reference, the external doc to my thrteaded interconnect is at</div><div> <a href="http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/VisualWorks+THAPI">http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/CincomSmalltalkWiki/VisualWorks+THAPI</a></div>
<div>I have internal doc somewhere which belongs to Cincom so if anyone is interested I'll ask Cincom for permission to publish it and if they say yes then I'll make it available, e.g. on my web site.</div><div><br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">2009/2/6 Steve Wart <<a href="mailto:steve.wart@gmail.com">steve.wart@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">> That's an interesting idea. Quite a lot of the momentum in Python, Lua,<br>
> ECMAScript, etc. come from their embedded-ness.<br>
><br>
> Smalltalk was built embedded in an OS that it was never entirely comfortable<br>
> with, although there have been many attempts at scripting Smalltalk from<br>
> other programs, Seaside being the most notable success.<br>
><br>
> I suggest that this ideal already exists. The benefits come from specific<br>
> implementations.<br>
><br>
> It would be interesting to see a Croquet variant with a modern game engine.<br>
> Smalltalk and C++ should be able to play well together.<br>
><br>
> Steve<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 8:53 AM, askoh <<a href="mailto:askoh@askoh.com">askoh@askoh.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> I think it is good you dare to speak your mind. I also think that the<br>
>> Squeak<br>
>> community can take that. Keep your ideas coming.<br>
>><br>
>> I would like Squeak to be callable from other programs so that it can be<br>
>> used as plugins.<br>
>><br>
>> Aik-Siong Koh<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Giuseppe Luigi Punzi Ruiz wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > We have elections soon.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I'ts time to think about the project. What we search? What new<br>
>> > developers search?<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I think, probably, Squeak, needs a refactoring on the ideas behind. The<br>
>> > people thath wants etoys, use etoys image. Croquet uses his own image.<br>
>> > Now, at the moment (2009), I'm 90% sure, the people thath go to<br>
>> > <a href="http://squeak.org" target="_blank">squeak.org</a>, and get the latest Squeak, now, are developers searching a<br>
>> > good smalltalk (something similar to VW but opensource I means) to use<br>
>> > in their projects, not the use of Squeak as multimedia, or something<br>
>> > similar. I know this for all spanish people ask me about Squeak, or<br>
>> > developers "going out the list" searching Pharo, an approach to the<br>
>> > things I say.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I like the idea about a console squeak (like GST) with the objects<br>
>> > living in memory, but not dependent of the "World", launching the actual<br>
>> > Squeak World as an object (I don't know if is the actual behaviour, I<br>
>> > only dream) if you want, or launching something like VW (or Dolphin)<br>
>> > working over TK or GTK or WxWidgets or technologys like XUL<br>
>> > instead.....I like the idea of an UI Painter....I like the idea of all<br>
>> > Squeak tools running over web too..well, this idea don't like it very<br>
>> > much :)..but I don't have the skills for all of this, for this I offer<br>
>> > the ideas. But most important, is the community has vote for this<br>
>> > things. The community needs to stay informed about the movements. I<br>
>> > think, this, is the right direction.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I don't know what you all think, but IMHO, it's the moment to get a new<br>
>> > Squeak 4 from zero, trying to preserve the core classes, with new ideas<br>
>> > and ambitions.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I don't like very much the idea about all list hating me, but, after<br>
>> > this mail, I know you hate me :P<br>
>> ><br>
>> > P.D.: Yes, probably, I'm crazy too.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> View this message in context:<br>
>> <a href="http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Winds-of-change-tp21872826p21876368.html" target="_blank">http://www.nabble.com/-squeak-dev--Winds-of-change-tp21872826p21876368.html</a><br>
>> Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.<br>
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</div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
Best regards,<br>
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.<br>
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