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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi Hernán,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I have not written any comparison between DNG and
Squeak.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Someone can do that after DNG release or with
information that will</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> be publised on lists and at DNG site (<A
href="http://www.dng.st">www.dng.st</A> is under construction</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> it will be the major source of public
information about the smalltalk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> for next generation).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I consider the business model proposed in DNG
and Squeak</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> are very diferent, so imo, it is better
to evluate each option (there are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> a lot of choices today to work with
Smalltalk) and where/when/how</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> to use the most convenient for the
inmediate case eachone is facing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>There is no need to converge, nor a universal
vision about smalltalk.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I have not had oportunities to make "real" use
of Erlang, nor worked</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> with other persons wich make profesional use
of it. I have made</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> some readings about "the language" and run
the samples (too</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> atomic/naïve under my pov). All what I have
seen that has any</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> relation</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial> with use of objects, can be made with DNG; I have</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> review the web pages after reading your email
to find something</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> that present a problem for our smalltalk
platform but do not find</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> any feature that can´t be implemented in
DNG.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I don't know if that features (e.g. strategy on
processes, etc) will be</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> implemented at first DNG release,
because 1.0 will contain the features</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> needed by major customers (to migrate and
mantain high</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> perfomance software, already written in
Smalltalk and with</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> a great position in the market).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>In other words, if you are looking for some Erlang
features</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> needed in your products,</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial> or have exerience in it and want</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> to collaborate giving asistance in servers
implementation (or other)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> to companies considering the DNG
platform</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>, please contact us</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> (this is the best way to ensure the features
will be there asap).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Ale.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=hernan.morales@gmail.com
href="mailto:hernan.morales@gmail.com">Hernán Morales Durand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">The general-purpose Squeak
developers list</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:55
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [squeak-dev] Compiling
Smalltalk</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT
size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>Hi
Ale,<BR><BR> Can you talk a little bit about the architectural
differences between DNG and Squeak (or other Smalltalks)? It will include
advances developed in the area of autonomic systems or structured overlay
networks? something like the Erlang's supervisor tree or subsumption
architecture?<BR>Best regards,<BR><BR>Hernán<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2009/7/11 Alejandro F. Reimondo <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:aleReimondo@smalltalking.net">aleReimondo@smalltalking.net</A>></SPAN><BR>
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<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>David,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>You can find a lot of experiences in Smalltalk
field, some</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> many years before Java language was
designed. If you do</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> some research in Smalltalk
history,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> a lot of good moments of reading is
granted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>IMO Smalltalk without native compilation
demostrates</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> the simplicity of Smalltalk (Dolphin
Smalltalk low level</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> impl. come</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial> to my mind here), but it is a must</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial> where</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> high perfomance</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial> is required.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>When considering object systems we must also
consider</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> garbage collection and flow of energy
spent in the system,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> that most of the times is not reported
from execution</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> speed nor microbenchmarks</FONT><FONT
size=2 face=Arial>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>A lot of development has been done using
Smalltalk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> platforms</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial> (some results was exploited in java
implementations</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> and others)</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial>... in dynamic compilation,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> in strategies to manage objects and
garbage</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> and in development of self sustaining
systems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Smalltalk do not impose a common base
nor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> fixed VM semantics, so advances in
</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>smalltalk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> are diverse and continue
today</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>. This is the reason why</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> we can see diferent alternatives for
smalltalk and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> no need to converge to an universal
model.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The compilation to native level is a must for a
high</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> perfomance smalltalk, but it is not
enough; today</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> eficience is needed at all levels and
also compromise</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> with history (new
smalltalk platforms like DNG,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial> comes to my mind here)</FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Ale.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228); font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dz0004455@gmail.com href="mailto:dz0004455@gmail.com"
target=_blank>David Zmick</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org"
target=_blank>Squeak-dev List</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, July 10, 2009 10:40 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[squeak-dev] Compiling Smalltalk</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>Me and a cousin of mine where discussing the
speed of compiled languages vs the speed of interpreted languages and the
subject of compiling interpreted languages came up. Languages like
Java that are compiled down to bytecode can then be compiled to machine
code, but I was under the impression that concept was impossible with
smalltalk. Why is this? And, I know there is a project to build a
compiler for smaltalk, what is the concept behind it?<BR><BR>thanks<BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>David Zmick<BR>/dz0004455\<BR><A
href="http://david-zmick.co.cc"
target=_blank>http://david-zmick.co.cc</A><BR></DIV></DIV>
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