<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br></font></div><div>Keith I see Eliot's not responded, I think he's busy elsewhere. </div><div><br></div><div>But your example here is completely off-base. </div><div><br></div><div>The Squeak community resisted doing closures for *years*, and under their breath muttered no friggen closures in squeak, but that's so simple to do... </div><div><br></div><div>Why: </div><div><br></div><div>(a) It would break things and *force* people to migrate their code at *their expense*. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Correct, so we need a process and tools that will provide the knowledge to ease this as much as possible.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div> The VM architects were extremely aware that was just the way it was going to be. </div><div><br></div><div>Eliot proposed a clean solution and pushed out the VM changes and changes sets against a older Squeak/Pharo image to exploit it. </div><div>I build a VM off that so someone could at least run it. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ok, so perhaps I am being a bit unfair, because Elliot at least made his progress in an "offline" initiative, he didn't develop in trunk.</div><div><br></div><div>However, manually throwing the result into trunk is not much use to 3.10 users, what is needed is a script and changesets I can apply to my working images, in a repeatable fashion, within an environment that will do the appropariate regression tests.</div></div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>The Pharo community then took the VM, change sets and reviewed their code base for additional fixes, later the same happen with the Squeak trunk.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Actually I used Bob to build and publish a 3.10 LPF image first I believe.</div><div><br></div><div>It was based upon the 3.10 closures image that Elliot or Andreas produced, however i didn't have the knowledge to progress it any further, and when I asked for feedback I got none. I told Elliot and Andreas about the image and the bugs it was throwing up and there was not much response, (I assumed they were fixing the problems), apart form Andreas saying why are you bothering with this "3.11 would be too soon for closures".<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>If there is stuff not converted then ask yourself is anyone supporting that code? </div><div>If it's your stuff, then either you or others you convince will have to convert it. </div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>How? I don't know how to. Its all very well for you vm hackers to do this, but the closures changeset hosed the debugger for me, and at that point its beyond me.</div><div><br></div><div>I need a script which shows me the end to end process of applying closures to a existing known released image, so that I can retrace those steps on my image. That knowledge would better be captured by a process which requires such contributions, and integrates them, rather than a repository where 10 people are all working at once.</div><div><br></div><div>regards, and thanks for your reply on Eliotts behalf</div><div><br></div><div>Keith</div></body></html>