<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Eliot Miranda</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com">eliot.miranda@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:44 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo changing the game<br>To: <a href="mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr">Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a>, <a href="mailto:johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com">johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com</a><br>
<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:26 PM, John M McIntosh <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com" target="_blank">johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Er, maybe I'll rant here since it' seems to me this the day for that. Perhaps flavoured a bit with<br>
Ralph's accidental post about cilantro.<br>
<br>
Should we not be talking about the Smalltalk 2010 ANSI proposal? Why the lock in to the<br>
Smalltalk ANSI INCITS 319-1998 (R2002) standard?<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I haven't seen much movement since Bruce kicked it off (<a href="http://openskills.blogspot.com/2007/10/ansi-smalltalk.html" target="_blank">http://openskills.blogspot.com/2007/10/ansi-smalltalk.html</a>). One of the hurdles was the amount of money ANSI wanted for participation in the standard. I for one couldn't afford it and couldn't see how Cadence, my then employer, would fund it. I think that goes for most of the non-vendor community. See Clay Shirky's <a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration.html" target="_blank">TED presentation</a> on institutions for why IMO ANSI is a non-starter. ANSI is irrelevant; it meets it's own needs, not the needs of the Smalltalk community. It can only ever create an obsolete standard. We need to design our own standard that meets our needs. If we can design a standard that is relevant the community as a whole will increasingly adhere to it over time, and as that happens it will become more useful, and, because it is defined by us, can evolve over time, both in content and at a meta level in its standards-making processes.</div>
<div class="im">
<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I think this fits into Stephane's comment about moving forward.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>IMO, moving forward means finding new forms, not putting a new badge on the same old corpse. We need a sci-fi movie not a zombie movie ;)</div>
<div class="im">
<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div></div><div><br>
On 2010-02-11, at 1:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
>> Now why don;t people want a better smalltalk?<br>
><br>
> Sure, everybody wants a better Smalltalk.<br>
><br>
> The ANSI standard does not make scripting impossible, it does not<br>
> forbid first class instance variables, it does not forbid a MOP or a<br>
> module system.<br>
><br>
> The ANSI standard only talks about the basic Smalltalk syntax,<br>
> Collections, Magnitudes, Streams. That's it. I don't think it is<br>
> limiting in any way.<br>
><br>
> Lukas<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Lukas Renggli<br>
> <a href="http://www.lukas-renggli.ch" target="_blank">http://www.lukas-renggli.ch</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Pharo-project mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" target="_blank">Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project" target="_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br>
<br>
</div></div><font color="#888888">--<br>
===========================================================================<br>
John M. McIntosh <<a href="mailto:johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com" target="_blank">johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com</a>> Twitter: squeaker68882<br>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. <a href="http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com" target="_blank">http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com</a><br>
===========================================================================<br>
</font><div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Pharo-project mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr" target="_blank">Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project" target="_blank">http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div><br>
</div><br>