<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:09 AM, keith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:keith_hodges@yahoo.co.uk">keith_hodges@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div class="im"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>So I see why you insist that your way would be better, and you may even be right. But I'm also part of this community for a dozen plus years and know it's not going to follow you on a whim. This community is different, for better and worse.<font color="#000000"><font color="#144FAE"><br>
</font></font></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>I don't insist that my way will be better. You are confusing many things here.</div><div><br></div><div>1) </div><div><br></div><div>Firstly there is the question of what changes to squeak are possible with the trunk method and what changes are not.</div>
<div>My method allowed any changes, the trunk method prevents me (and edgar it seems) from participating. I object strongly to this.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You're simply wrong on this. I, with help from others, managed to get the closure compiler into several dialects quite recently and I can assure you that changing the compiler under one's feet is tricky. There is nothing inherent in the trunk model that hinders difficult change. A coordinated series of package updates is just as powerful as changesets. One simply has to try and try again because one will make mistakes and the system will break and one will be able to discover why and compensate. Don't confuse the medium with the message. Change sets and MC packages are media but they can convey many messages. Eventually one gets to a depth at which these media fail to do the whole job (for example changing the object format, bytecode set etc). But Smalltalk's reflective nature is what makes both of these media equally powerful and equally unsafe. If you want to make deep changes you simply have to be prepared to fail, to be confused, to be persistent and then to be enlightened (often through conversations with friends). It's a fun path; more fun and productive than endlessly whining.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><br></div><div>If you want to give the community a familiar method then fine, but that familiar method will have to be an update stream of changesets. If you were to use that familiar method I would be all for it, anything but trunk.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In case you didn't realise that was what the bob2 method consisted of at the end of the day, conceptually it was a series of changesets, that could do anything to any image. MC was used to publish the result afterwards.</div>
<div><br></div><div>See, no mention of git bazaar or anything.</div><div><br></div><div>2) The second issue is that of respect.</div><div><br></div><div>For someone to turn around and say to edgar ".. but you don't have to use squeak" is really quite offensive to me, because Edgar is a pillar of this community, and so the development methods we use should support him not shut him out.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Squeak is not just the image... We had a series of tools, including LPF that made squeak a much better place to work, you could install things reliably including dependencies. I regularly installed Magma Seaside Scriptaculous Magritte and Pier in a one liner.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For someone to come along who doesnt appreciate that squeak had moved forward considerably in the period they had been away, and then discard all progress, and actually break things for us, is similarly rude.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Fix the respect issue, and fix the contribution barrier issue and you might move forward. It has nothing to do with "my way", my way is just a technical way forward I am using to personally extract myself out of this mess.</div>
<div><br></div><div>regards</div><div><br></div><div>Keith</div></div><br></div><br><br>
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