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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Keith,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thank you for your response. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In that case I understand your
point. Your method is intended to be used for two purposes. Just to
be clear we can name them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Allow developers to post a fix to a specific stable image.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> Bob
then:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>2) Runs
tests to identify fixes needed in other images. (Go back to 1)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I see this as a very nice feedback loop
that finds issues and provides a methodology to address specific problems.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>From the responses I read it appears that
your solution does not work well for creating that stable image. We are
working on creating stable images using a method that is similar to the trunk
system. It works because it gives you a very fast feedback loop for
development, but I agree it only works when you put it into the hands of
developers you trust.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The fact that the trunk system is taking a
long time can be attributed to how difficult the changes are. The changes
that are going in are monumental. If you were to add overhead to the work
that is currently going on I don’t think it would get done at all. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So if you can remove your last point we
agree. Your method works well to support developers that are interested
in a methodology to find and fix problems to stable images because that is what
it does: it helps them to find and address specific problems.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The fact that the extra overhead involved
to use this method for development is not supported by the community, I believe,
is a direct result of trying to apply this method to something that you just
said doesn’t work. Consider the current trunk as a single
contribution that is being generated by a team. The team decided to work
together to accomplish something. When that is done you will have your
stable “non moving target” image. At that point I believe the
community would see the value of the proposal outweighs the overhead involved
in using it (if it works).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>With respect,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ron Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>keith<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 12, 2010 1:31
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Ron@USMedRec.com; The
general-purpose Squeak developers list<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [squeak-dev]
[Election] ...is soon upon us! Last day info</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Why couldn't Bob harvest changes from Mantis so they can be reviewed
and<br>
posted to trunk?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>1) Because trunk is a moving target. The principle is that mantis needs
to manage fixes relative to an actual release. So that you can take a
production image and fix bits you need to to keep current. If you are
harvesting fixes from mantis into trunk then you will be adjusting the fixes to
be appropriate to "trunk" (a moving target). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Bob isnt only about harvesting fixes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>2) If you are the developer of a package that loads in all forks, you
are supported by the ability to load fixes into the other forks you support.
The trunk process doesn't care about supporting you to keep your package
working.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Every change made to trunk is made to trunk only, the implications on
that change to the packages that you may wish to load is not tested. That is
what bob was designed to do, to test the whole, and to test all derived images.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>2) The bob process is
intended to be used in regular cycles, to generate multiple artifacts, that may
then be integrated. Trunk messes this up by prolonging the release cycle to
years to produce one artifact.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Keith<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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