I do not have the skills or intelligence to be dev. But, I do know how to read and I read the thoughts posted on the list in the hope that I learn something. I would be one of the *silent* although I have no idea whether that group is the *majority*. When *contention* produces real *content*, I am thankful. When not, well, it's on to the next post for me. <br>
<br>cheers,<br><br>ching<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 AM, Chris Muller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com">asqueaker@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Just to clarify, I am not against survey-style polling; in fact I am<br>
greatly interested in counting. However, the way this was presented,<br>
as a "resolution of contentious issues," while at the same time,<br>
itself, being contentious with divisive, comparative language; that<br>
approach will not be effective to garner my support.<br>
<br>
I would only participate if I were sure the poll would not serve as a<br>
wedge to divide our community / communities.<br>
<br>
However, maybe not, because perhaps the emergent phenomena of "no<br>
consensus" should be viewed _as_ a consensus; that the proposal could<br>
not pass muster with enough of the bright minds here for action to be<br>
warranted and, therefore, the choice not do do it was and is the<br>
correct one.<br></blockquote><div>Well said, Chris.<br>++1<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<font color="#888888"><br>
- Chris<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Chris Muller <<a href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com">asqueaker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Casey,<br>
><br>
>> I've seen a few rounds of discussion around contentious issues. Namespaces<br>
>> are a fantastic example. Some of these issues, (I'll call them Oddballs,)<br>
>> just don't like getting resolved. The pattern is that almost everyone who<br>
>> speaks out has a different idea about how to #doIt. The conversation usually<br>
>> goes in a long circle, and then gets garbage collected when everyone gets<br>
>> too fatigued with the debate to continue it.<br>
><br>
> Vigorous debate is not only normal, but essential, for a successful<br>
> software development community.<br>
><br>
>> I often wonder what the silent majority think about Oddball issues. We<br>
><br>
> Did the "silent majority" have a silent vote, and that's how you know<br>
> they were the "majority" of something?<br>
><br>
>> I'm thinking of this in part after a conversation that happened at the first<br>
>> SSUG meeting. We talked about how we tend to argue in circles in squeak-dev,<br>
><br>
> We "tend to argue in circles" in squeak-dev. That's ridiculous.<br>
><br>
>> while the Pharo folk set up a "working group" to make decisions about stuff<br>
><br>
> They do? I searched the Pharo list for "working group" but did not<br>
> find any announcements. Can you tell us more? Who are they, what did<br>
> they work on, and what was the final "solution"?<br>
><br>
> As for Squeak, squeak-dev _is_ the working group.<br>
><br>
>> like this, and then as a result get to make progress, even on issues which<br>
><br>
> "Progress?" That's a very subjective term..<br>
><br>
>> are contentious in their community. I don't know if we actually need or want<br>
>> a "working group," whatever that is, but it would be nice to _have a pulse<br>
>> on the desires of the broader Squeak community._<br>
><br>
> I would say, if the pulse isn't clear, this is the place to find it.<br>
> You can poll here, our community is small enough to be able to do that<br>
> by just reading the responses of the folks who care enough to voice<br>
> their opinion. The "silent majority" has no voice other than their<br>
> code, which must be good enough to lure our community into change.<br>
><br>
>> two problems a) contention, and b) no workable implementation, it would be<br>
>> nice to get some of the contention out of the way so that I can quit arguing<br>
>> on a mailing list and #doIt.<br>
><br>
> I think you know, there's plenty to work on that requires no arguing. :)<br>
><br>
> - Chris<br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>