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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2012-12-20 12:25 PM, Benoit St-Jean
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1356024355.62450.YahooMailNeo@web161303.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
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<div><span>How useful... This is the kind of stuff that makes
me wanna shout!<br>
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><complaint></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>I just installed
Squeak 4.3 to migrate some code I had on an older Squeak 4.x
image...</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Loaded some of the
tools I use, like ScriptManager to realize... That the
newest versions are for Pharo! With references to stuff that
doesn't exist in Squeak. <br>
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>In other words, the
more commits to existing project in Squeaksource (or
anywhere else where the code used to be "Squeak friendly"
and/or developed for Squeak in the first place) the Pharo
people do, the less and less those projects will work with
Squeak!</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>It's just as if
Volkswagen would take over the manufacturing of parts for
Honda and would adapt all parts for THEIR engines... If I
have a Honda, what can I do? :( <br>
</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>With Pharo moving away
from Squeak (and most other Smalltalks in fact), if we don't
find a way to clearly split what is "Pharo friendly" from
what is "Squeak friendly" (I resisted using the word
"compatible"), where are we heading ???</span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span></complaint></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13.3333px;
font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>P.S. This is going to
be a nightmare if we don't act before the Pharo people have
"adapted" tons of stuff to *their* environment...<br>
</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>-----------------<br>
Benoit St-Jean<br>
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean<br>
A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero.<br>
(Albert Einstein)<br>
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</blockquote>
Yea, it's an interesting point. I hear you shouting, but who are you
shouting to? You've found a problem, and somebody™ is supposed to
solve if for you. Is that correct? Who? <br>
<br>
I'm on the Squeak Board and from my point of view, you're
observation would be more compelling if you proposed a solution to
what you've discovered. If you just say it's a problem and somebody™
should fix it, I'm not that interested. Especially when you cannot
even take the time to think of a few criteria of the problem that
may be used to fix it. <br>
<br>
Here's what I can tell you. Squeak infrastructure is not responsible
for every project in existence. You're first solution would be to
talk to the maintainers of that project. None of the maintainers of
ScriptManager are Squeakers. Might that tell you something? <br>
<br>
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<pre style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: justify; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.squeaksource.com/ScriptManager">http://www.squeaksource.com/ScriptManager</a></pre>
<br>
The Squeak Board is in the process of looking at this issue, though.
And I can say what is on the horizon. The first thing we will have
is community supported packages tested regularly in images in the
Squeak CI server. There will be a list of packages, a top twenty
list, say, of packages that will be known to be the responsibility
of the community. <br>
<br>
Now, wouldn't it be good if there was something like SqueakMap,
something separate from Squeaksource and SqueakSource3, that was a
Squeak-only location for packages? They you'd know that you had come
to the right "app store". We're working on that too. But I don't
think it will be SqueakMap, which in my opinion has run its course.
So were looking at this issue. But SqueakMap is a contentious issue.
Very contentious. There are those who would like to put a stick of
dynamite in it. And those who get extremely incensed at even the
thought. (Actually, even the word, in public, like I just did.
Counting down in ... four...three ... two...oh, look!) <br>
<br>
So, we're looking at that. And in the near future, say Squeak 4.5,
there will be better guidelines around these problems. <br>
<br>
You could load the same packages into the new Squeak4.3 that you
loaded before. If you want the latest Squeak in addition to the
latest versions of the packages, well, then I think you may need to
do some work. And when the infrastructure I just described is in
place, there will most certainly be packages that, all that new
infrastructure notwithstanding, will be nobody's responsibility but
yours and the actual package developer. <br>
<br>
Chris <br>
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