<div dir="ltr"><div style>Here is a project that make it possible to load external files with Monticello.</div><div style>I does not do versioning of the external files AFIK</div><a href="http://www.squeaksource.com/TFFiler/">http://www.squeaksource.com/TFFiler/</a><br>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div style>Karl</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Dale Henrichs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com" target="_blank">dhenrich@vmware.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Monticello has been an indispensable tool for Smalltalk ... but there are things that it does not manage:<br>
<br>
multi mcz file projects<br>
non-code artifacts<br>
<br>
Anything that falls outside of a single mcz file is not managed by Monticello. You are on your own.<br>
<br>
FileTree preserves many of the advantages of using Monticello, while leveraging git to solve the multiple package and non-code artifact issues. See my talk[1] for more details.<br>
<br>
Dale<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/practical-git-for-smalltalk-stic-2012/" target="_blank">http://gemstonesoup.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/practical-git-for-smalltalk-stic-2012/</a><br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
| From: "H. Hirzel" <<a href="mailto:hannes.hirzel@gmail.com">hannes.hirzel@gmail.com</a>><br>
| To: "Chris Muller" <<a href="mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com">ma.chris.m@gmail.com</a>><br>
| Cc: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
| Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 11:44:02 AM<br>
| Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Cannot search Projects or Versions on SqueakSource3<br>
|<br>
| Regarding the MontiCello (MC) paradigm: Dale H. has stated that git,<br>
| github and other distributed version control systems like Mercurial<br>
| and MC can coexist<br>
|<br>
| cf FileTree (in SqueakMap for 4.4, not a new information for you, I<br>
| assume)<br>
|<br>
| A smooth transition taking 1...5 years is possible....Nobody should<br>
| feel forced.<br>
|<br>
| For example Eliot M. says that MC is indispensable for his work.<br>
| As for me I must say that MC works fine.<br>
|<br>
| And the MC files may be stored on web sites as well like Colin P. and<br>
| Lukas N. do with their artifacts.<br>
|<br>
| BTW this reinforces the point that more support for SqueakMap is<br>
| needed for 2013.<br>
|<br>
| --Hannes<br>
|<br>
|<br>
|<br>
| On 1/4/13, Chris Muller <<a href="mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com">ma.chris.m@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
| >> The number as such is of some significance that we can expose our<br>
| >> work<br>
| >> to a large audience.<br>
| ><br>
| > Yes, I should not have said "nothing". I just inadvertently<br>
| > overstated what I think should be the focus if we are to achieve<br>
| > escape-velocity to break us away from our current MC paradigm --<br>
| > namely that it can't be a "compromise" to our overall SCM<br>
| > capability,<br>
| > it must be an ^improvement^ even in from strictly a Smalltalk<br>
| > development perspective. Which, it sounds like, Dale has almost<br>
| > achieved that goal, so exposure to 1M users will be great icing.<br>
| ><br>
| ><br>
| >> Smalltalk is no 46 on the github languages list.<br>
| >><br>
| >> <a href="https://github.com/languages/Smalltalk" target="_blank">https://github.com/languages/Smalltalk</a><br>
| >><br>
| >> Otherwise I agree with you.<br>
| >><br>
| >><br>
| >>> but some of the functionality; the idea of<br>
| >>> being able to fork anyone's work and cherry-pick from other<br>
| >>> forks,<br>
| >>> etc. as well as the server-continuity all sounds really great.<br>
| >><br>
| >> Actually Monticello works fine locally but the infrastructure at<br>
| >> the<br>
| >> moment is weak.<br>
| >><br>
| >> <a href="http://www.squeaksource.com" target="_blank">www.squeaksource.com</a> cannot accept new projects.<br>
| >><br>
| >> ss3 is alpha and Dale does not have time.<br>
| >><br>
| >> Smalltalkhub does not have enough people to work on it.<br>
| >><br>
| >> No RESTful URL's<br>
| >><br>
| >> If we want to focus on e.g. making Etoys unlodable, Environments,<br>
| >> Altitude etc we need to rely on well supported source code<br>
| >> management.<br>
| >><br>
| >> And for example SqueakMap is still a good project but support is<br>
| >> weak as<br>
| >> well.<br>
| >> Goran is around from time to time and has an interest in doing<br>
| >> something but in the end he does is very small.<br>
| >><br>
| >> And Chris, you wrote that you want to work on it in 2013. This is<br>
| >> great<br>
| >> news.<br>
| >><br>
| >> I assume SqueakMap probably does not need much more investment to<br>
| >> become very useful<br>
| >> tool again. In particular in connection with github.<br>
| >><br>
| >> We could actually store just plain *.mcz files there as well. Not<br>
| >> fully the intended use of github but probably a step in a smooth<br>
| >> transition for Squeak programmers.<br>
| >><br>
| >> And then start using FileTree of course.<br>
| >><br>
| >><br>
| >> --Hannes<br>
| >><br>
| >>><br>
| >>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Dale Henrichs<br>
| >>> <<a href="mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com">dhenrich@vmware.com</a>><br>
| >>> wrote:<br>
| >>>> The two current challenges at the moment are Metacello/git<br>
| >>>> integration<br>
| >>>> and<br>
| >>>> in-image support for git operations.<br>
| >>>><br>
| >>>> The Metacello Preview represents my current take on integrating<br>
| >>>> Metacello<br>
| >>>> and git/github ... I like most of what I have, but there are a<br>
| >>>> few<br>
| >>>> things<br>
| >>>> that I'm not happy with and that will need work before it's<br>
| >>>> ready for<br>
| >>>> primetime...<br>
| >>>><br>
| >>>> There has been work done by Max Leske and Camillo Bruni to<br>
| >>>> provide a<br>
| >>>> FileSystem-based access to git, but I haven't had the time to<br>
| >>>> play with<br>
| >>>> this yet ...<br>
| >>>><br>
| >>>> At this point in time, things are usable by pioneers who are<br>
| >>>> willing to<br>
| >>>> put up with a few hardships:)<br>
| >>>><br>
| >>>> Dale<br>
| >>>><br>
| >>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
| >>>> | From: "Frank Shearar" <<a href="mailto:frank.shearar@gmail.com">frank.shearar@gmail.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"<br>
| >>>> <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
| >>>> | Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:00:01 AM<br>
| >>>> | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Cannot search Projects or<br>
| >>>> | Versions on<br>
| >>>> SqueakSource3<br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>> | On 3 January 2013 16:52, Dale Henrichs <<a href="mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com">dhenrich@vmware.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | wrote:<br>
| >>>> | > Chris,<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> | > Where _do_ I spend my cycles? (you may ask)<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> | > Working on opening up git/github to smalltalkers.<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> | > github has over 1,000,000 users and 100+ folks work at<br>
| >>>> | > github<br>
| >>>> | > maintaining and developing the site ... How many full-time<br>
| >>>> | > developers are there for SqueakSource3 or SmalltalkHub?<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> | > Besides that, in my opinion, the combination of git/github<br>
| >>>> | > is<br>
| >>>> | > superior to anything we have.<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> | > Finally, I believe that if and when the Smalltalk community<br>
| >>>> | > adapts<br>
| >>>> | > to git/github, Smalltalk as a development environment will<br>
| >>>> | > become<br>
| >>>> | > much more accessible to developers in general which can only<br>
| >>>> | > be a<br>
| >>>> | > good thing...<br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>> | It's worth reminding people that filetree works just great as<br>
| >>>> | a<br>
| >>>> | Monticello back end (and does so right now). When you're<br>
| >>>> | developing,<br>
| >>>> | you're unaware that there's file system swizzling to a git<br>
| >>>> | repository.<br>
| >>>> | And if you use Dale's builderCI version, you can hook up to<br>
| >>>> | Travis CI<br>
| >>>> | and get continuous integration for free.<br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>> | Gitocello too works great: the tradeoff is that filetree<br>
| >>>> | versions<br>
| >>>> | semantic units while Gitocell versions chunk-format fileouts.<br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>> | frank<br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>> | > Dale<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> | > ----- Original Message -----<br>
| >>>> | > | From: "Dale Henrichs" <<a href="mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com">dhenrich@vmware.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | To: "ma chris m" <<a href="mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com">ma.chris.m@gmail.com</a>>, "The<br>
| >>>> | > | general-purpose<br>
| >>>> | > | Squeak developers list"<br>
| >>>> | > | <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 8:08:05 AM<br>
| >>>> | > | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Cannot search Projects or<br>
| >>>> | > | Versions<br>
| >>>> | > | on SqueakSource3<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | Chris,<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | One other point that may not be clear ...<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | I am not the developer/maintainer of SqueakSource3 ... I<br>
| >>>> | > | administer<br>
| >>>> | > | the ss3 site.<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | I don't have the cycles to take on the ongoing development<br>
| >>>> | > | of<br>
| >>>> | > | SqueakSource3 and rely on other developers for that ...<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | So when I say that ss3 will be supported "forever" I am<br>
| >>>> | > | talking<br>
| >>>> | > | about<br>
| >>>> | > | keeping the site operational "forever", not about fixing<br>
| >>>> | > | bugs and<br>
| >>>> | > | adding new features to SqueakSource3 ... someone else has<br>
| >>>> | > | to take<br>
| >>>> | > | on<br>
| >>>> | > | that job ....<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | Dale<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | ----- Original Message -----<br>
| >>>> | > | | From: "Chris Muller" <<a href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com">asqueaker@gmail.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"<br>
| >>>> | > | | <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | | Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 1:41:56 PM<br>
| >>>> | > | | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Cannot search Projects or<br>
| >>>> | > | | Versions on<br>
| >>>> | > | | SqueakSource3<br>
| >>>> | > | |<br>
| >>>> | > | | Dale, will SS3 still be supported even after<br>
| >>>> | > | | SmalltalkHub comes<br>
| >>>> | > | | on-line?<br>
| >>>> | > | |<br>
| >>>> | > | | On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Dale Henrichs<br>
| >>>> | > | | <<a href="mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com">dhenrich@vmware.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | | wrote:<br>
| >>>> | > | | > Chris,<br>
| >>>> | > | | ><br>
| >>>> | > | | > Non-optimized search is one of the "features" of the<br>
| >>>> | > | | > Alpha<br>
| >>>> | > | | > status<br>
| >>>> | > | | > of ss3.<br>
| >>>> | > | | ><br>
| >>>> | > | | > One of these days I will find the time to optimize the<br>
| >>>> | > | | > project<br>
| >>>> | > | | > search among other things .... In the past when my<br>
| >>>> | > | | > time has<br>
| >>>> | > | | > opened<br>
| >>>> | > | | > up, either Tobias didn't have time available or it<br>
| >>>> | > | | > looked<br>
| >>>> | > | | > like<br>
| >>>> | > | | > SmalltalkHub would come online ...<br>
| >>>> | > | | ><br>
| >>>> | > | | > Ah well, I suppose the quickest way to get<br>
| >>>> | > | | > SmalltalkHub to<br>
| >>>> | > | | > come<br>
| >>>> | > | | > online is for me to start work on ss3:)<br>
| >>>> | > | | ><br>
| >>>> | > | | > Dale<br>
| >>>> | > | | ><br>
| >>>> | > | | > ----- Original Message -----<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | From: "Chris Muller" <<a href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com">asqueaker@gmail.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | | > | To: "squeak dev"<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | | > | Cc: "Dale Henrichs" <<a href="mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com">dhenrich@vmware.com</a>><br>
| >>>> | > | | > | Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:45:05 AM<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | Subject: Re: Cannot search Projects or Versions on<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | SqueakSource3<br>
| >>>> | > | | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | > Searching for Projects does not work either but it<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | > seems<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | > to<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | > hang<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | > the<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | > browser rather than producing no results.<br>
| >>>> | > | | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | Ok, right after I hit send, the search for Projects<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | came<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | back.<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | It<br>
| >>>> | > | | > | took > 60 seconds.<br>
| >>>> | > | | > |<br>
| >>>> | > | | ><br>
| >>>> | > | |<br>
| >>>> | > | |<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | > |<br>
| >>>> | ><br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>> |<br>
| >>>><br>
| >>><br>
| >>><br>
| ><br>
|<br>
|<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>