<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>On 2013-05-23, at 21:35, Chris Muller <<a href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com">asqueaker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">>> Bert, could you please explain why you want this?<br>><br>> Cmd-0 is supposed to make something into plain text. Colored text is not plain text.<div><br></div><div>Look at the consecutive key-sequence across the top-row of the keyboard. In order from left-to-right we have:<br>
</div><div><br></div><div style=""> Command+7 = Bold, no color change<br></div><div> Command+8 = Italicize, no color change</div><div> Command+9 = Kern, no color change</div><div> Command+0 = Normalize, <font color="#ff0000">PLUS</font> <font color="#00ff00">a</font> <font color="#0000ff">color</font> <font color="#ff00ff">change</font>!</div>
<div> Command+_ = Underline, no color change</div><div> Command+= = Strikeout, no color change.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Now you're being ridiculous:</div><div><br></div><div>Command+6 = Color, no underline change</div><div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Command+7 = Bold, no underline change<br>Command+8 = Italicize, no underline change<br>Command+9 = Kern, no underline change<br>Command+0 = Normalize, <u>PLUS</u> an <u>underline</u> change!<br>Command+_ = Underline change<br>Command+= = Strikeout, no underline change<br><br></div><div>Outrageous ;)</div></div></div></div></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div style="">I think Command+6 should be the universal, one-stop, "Text Colorization" / "Decolorization" function and leave the rest of it elegantly consistent by operating solely on emphasis attributes.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">The new Cmd+0 affects the gesture-usage of the system too. Before, all combinations of going <u>from</u> any <i>format+color</i> <u>to</u> any another other <i>format+color</i> utilized a consistent sequence of gestures. Now, we have an exceptional case for removing emphasis from colored text (e.g., going from Bold+Red to Normal+Red).</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You seem to think of color as something special. I don't. It's just another way to make text fancy, instead of plain. Cmd-0 is intended to make text plain.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<div style=""><b>Question</b>: How will users keep the same custom-color when all they want to do is remove an underline? </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Just like you do it in all other text editors: toggle underlining on and off: hit "Cmd _" twice.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div style="">This use-case is now very difficult for the user if not impossible.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Huh?</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div style="">>> It's already so easy to switch text color to black: Command+6 + Enter.<br></div><div>><br>> Sure, but I don't normally want to set the text to black. I want to make it plain.<br>
<br>Ok, how about adding "default color" to the Alt+6 menu then? Or, how about an alternate key-sequence for "Normalize + Decolorize"? Shift+Command+0 is available! This would be perfect compromise.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No. A more special operation should have a more complicated shortcut. "Remove all embellishments" is more general than "remove all embellishments but preserve colorization", so if you really need that special mode, that could be your new shortcut. </div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>>> Isn't that easy enough without making it impossible for folks writing<br>>> documents in Squeak that contain colored text?<br>><br>> Don't use Cmd-0 if you want to use text containing different colors. It's *supposed* to make the whole selection look uniform.</div>
<div><br></div><div style="">But what <u>do</u> I use now if want to maintain different colors but just want to remove <i><font color="#674ea7"><u style="font-weight:bold">em</u><b>pha</b>sis</font></i>? To do that before, it was the same consistent gesture-sequence as anything else. Command+0, Command+6, Enter. Done. Now that's broken, especially for custom-colors.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>But then you would need many more command sequences:</div><div><br></div><div>a) remove all text attributes except color</div><div>b) remove all text attributes except underlines/strikethrough</div><div>c) remove all text attributes except bold/italic</div><div>... etc ...</div><div><br></div><div>This is obviously ridiculous. I just don't see why you think text color is so special that it needs to be treated completely differently than all the other text attributes.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div style="">> For a differently-colored background plain text should be displayed in color possibly different from black, I agree. But that color should *not* be encoded in the text itself, it should be a property of its display container, the one providing the background color.<br>
</div><div style=""><br></div><div style="">I'm on-board with having a "nil" color as a text that causes it to render in whatever it's container says it should and having a gesture to set it such. Glad we agree about that.</div>
<div style=""><br></div><div style="">Would you please compromise with me -- it seems the shift key is used as an "enhanced" version of several hot-key functions throughout the system, and so Shift+Command+0 to inject the decolorization and leaving original Command+0 to remain consistent with [7] thru [=] to only remove emphasis, seems ideal, what do you think?</div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>As I tried to explained above the only consistent way is for CMD-0 to remove all these text attribute. You're welcome to add "remove-all-but-color" as a special operation. I have *never* needed that, but I always was annoyed when I wanted to remove style, e.g. because a class comment was saved as all-red. </div><div><br></div><div>Seriously, I don't even understand how you could think this is controversial. Removing all text attributes *obviously* should remove text colors.</div><div><br></div><div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><div style="font-family: Helvetica; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">- Bert -</span></div></span></div><br></body></html>