<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Squeak wants to be a platform with support for legacy applications, and slow and smooth progress.<br></div>Pharo explicitely cannot afford that (too expensive).<br></div>It could also be the platform for rebasing Etoys, but I don't know what's up on this front.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/10/29 Pavel Krivanek <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:squeak1@continentalbrno.cz" target="_blank">squeak1@continentalbrno.cz</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Frank,<br>
<br>
spending few minutes on it, I was able to produce very very dirty<br>
image (4.6MB). I did only few small changes. Use <a href="http://patch002.st" target="_blank">patch002.st</a>, I<br>
attach <a href="http://patch001.st" target="_blank">patch001.st</a> only for diff purposes. I only tried to make it<br>
work somehow and made the resultant image responsive.<br>
I was not able to recompile all the classes so I simply used ifError:<br>
statement so many of methods is still not recompiled. That's one<br>
reason why the resultant image is so dirty. The script works on my<br>
Linux machine, no clue what will it do on Mac or Win.<br>
You should look at the <a href="http://patch002.st" target="_blank">patch002.st</a>, compare patched methods with<br>
recent versions. Maybe some currently do not need any change. The<br>
patch does not provide good or final solutions, it only shows the most<br>
creaking places.<br>
<br>
I can help but you should understand that for me it's time I steal<br>
from Pharo that has much higher priority for me. I do not understand<br>
what Squeak is now and what it wants to be and I do not know last<br>
changes in it.<br>
<br>
-- Pavel<br>
<br>
2013/10/29 Frank Shearar <<a href="mailto:frank.shearar@gmail.com">frank.shearar@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> I know, Pavel.<br>
><br>
> If you want to see Squeak shrink faster, and finally catch up with<br>
> your sterling work from ages ago, please take the image in<br>
> <a href="http://build.squeak.org/job/SqueakTrunk/573/artifact/*zip*/archive.zip" target="_blank">http://build.squeak.org/job/SqueakTrunk/573/artifact/*zip*/archive.zip</a><br>
> and see if I haven't broken anything. In particular, poke around the<br>
> Parser, because Nicolas and I saw some problems in the update stream a<br>
> while ago concerning Parser.<br>
><br>
> Because one of the most serious non-technical problems that Squeak has<br>
> is lack of people.<br>
><br>
> frank<br>
><br>
> On 29 October 2013 08:42, Pavel Krivanek <<a href="mailto:squeak1@continentalbrno.cz">squeak1@continentalbrno.cz</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Hi Nicolas,<br>
>><br>
>> for Squeak we were able to shrink the system to a small kernel and<br>
>> reload and initialize the Morphic back long ago. In 2006. Two years<br>
>> before Pharo started to exist. The reason why Pharo can do it now and<br>
>> Squeak not is not technical.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> -- Pavel<br>
>><br>
>> 2013/10/25 Nicolas Cellier <<a href="mailto:nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com">nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>>> The problems you are going to face are:<br>
>>> 1) you need a good package delimitation, with clear contracts (on which<br>
>>> package/API do I depend?) both in the Squeak image (to save the package that<br>
>>> you want to see reloaded) and in Pharo<br>
>>> 2) the package delimitation has to be in good agreement, because the MC<br>
>>> tools do not deal with package refactoring<br>
>>> 3) since API are not in agreement, you gonna need plenty of glue for working<br>
>>> around changes like trimBoth, includesSubstring: etc...<br>
>>><br>
>>> What are your goals exactly?<br>
>>><br>
>>> A) you want to build on top of smaller kernel?<br>
>>> Then once you have 1), why should you go into Pharo rather than building on<br>
>>> top of your Squeak kernel?<br>
>>><br>
>>> B) you want to profit by clean-ups and refactorings and shiny new<br>
>>> architecture made in Pharo?<br>
>>> Then yes, porting some interesting Squeak bits to Pharo has some value.<br>
>>> But that means you spend a lot of efforts for maintaining those bits alive.<br>
>>> That means switching from old file system to new one, switching from old<br>
>>> text system to (yet future) new one, switching to Spec, switching to<br>
>>> Settings, Announcements etc...<br>
>>><br>
>>> C) You have no specific goals, just want to follow the momentum, but keep<br>
>>> your confortable Squeak slippers?<br>
>>> If you end up with hacks for loading all the old Squeak mud, then you'll end<br>
>>> up with Squeak, just a different Squeak, and unless you enjoy jumping many<br>
>>> hurdles, I don't see the point.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> 2013/10/25 Edgar De Cleene <<a href="mailto:edgardec2005@gmail.com">edgardec2005@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> De: Nicolas Cellier <<a href="mailto:nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com">nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> Responder a: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
>>>> Fecha: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:06:43 +0200<br>
>>>> Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list<br>
>>>> <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>><br>
>>>> Asunto: Re: [squeak-dev] SqueakTrunk image on <a href="http://build.squeak.org" target="_blank">build.squeak.org</a> broken?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Yes, Pharo is doing a great work of simplification.<br>
>>>> On the other hand, it deliberately has zero requirements to make removed<br>
>>>> parts reloadable, so the task is a bit easier...<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Still exploring and understanding his system, but reporting<br>
>>>> ReferenceStream to Pharo 2.0 and having DependencyBrowser of Squeak working<br>
>>>> on it, a long time work could be put our view of Morphic on top of his<br>
>>>> kernel.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Or Cuis Morph hierarchy.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Edgar<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
><br>
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