<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style='font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;'>Thanks.<br><br>If I ever delve back into web-work, I will give it consideration.<br><br>cheers.<br><br>tty<br><div id="1"><br>---- On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 14:14:54 -0800 <b>Göran Krampe<goran@krampe.se></b> wrote ---- <br></div><br><blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid #0000FF; padding-left: 6px; margin:0 0 0 5px">On 01/22/2014 03:51 PM, gettimothy wrote: <br>> I am not a Seaside expert--and I am activelly trying to move away from <br>> web-development. <br>> <br>> If I may throw out a bit of advocacy here. <br>> <br>> I used to made my living doing "middleware" work in web development ( I <br>> still do some freelance PHP work to pay the bills). <br>> My specialty is getting data from the database to the web page for the <br>> designers to use, back through the business layer and to the database. <br>> <br>> I have used PHP and its frameworks: Zend, CodeIgniter, Java and its <br>> frameworks (which are pretty good) and the Microsoft stack (which I hate) <br>> By far the easiest to use for complex applications in that "middleware" <br>> stack is Seaside components. All you do is get a robust definition of what <br>> the use-case is and the application pretty much writes itself. <br>> Development time and maintenance are greatly reduced. <br>> <br>> I do see the trend towards Javascript by the young-uns out there--most <br>> developers do think in Algol afterall--which is fine, but it is really <br>> repeating the 70's all over again. <br>> It get's boring--same coding style, same frameworks to manage the <br>> short-comings..just blah. <br> <br>I am sounding like a broken record but: <br> <br><a href="http://www.amber-lang.net" target="_blank">http://www.amber-lang.net</a> <br> <br>As Colin has already said - writing a HTML5 app in Amber is very, very <br>similar to how you write a Seaside app. You have proper components that <br>can nest etc. You have a canvas that looks and behaves very much like in <br>Seaside - although it actually operates directly on the DOM. <br> <br>And Amber is Smalltalk. You have browser, workspace, inspectors and even <br>a debugger. But its not an interpreter - its a full compiling Smalltalk. <br> <br>Best way to see this if you have 2 minutes: <br> <br>1. Go to www.smalltalkhub.com using Chrome. <br>2. Press ctrl-shift-j to get Javascript console. <br>3. Write "smalltalk.Browser._open();" and execute that. <br>4. Close javascript console and enjoy the Amber IDE (the old one though, <br>the new Helios IDE is much slicker). <br>5. Click on the "Hub-Amber-Widgets-Users" package in the left side list. <br>6. Find ShLoginWidget class, look at the code. <br> <br>...and yes, you can edit the method, save it, and see the effect <br>immediately in the app! Just like Smalltalk. <br> <br>regards, Göran <br> <br>PS. You can use javascript libraries relatively transparently from <br>Amber, no glue needed. As you may see jQuery is used in the Amber IDE <br>without a single line of glue code. <br> <br></blockquote><br></div></body></html>