<div dir="ltr">Hi all,<div><br></div><div>I was trying to keep aways from the discussion but now I am directly involved as the "co-admin" of GSoC 2010.</div><div><br></div><div>First, Janko, I don't see at all your point here. Whether it was true or not, making this PUBLIC and NOW does not make sense. It only makes clear the only thing you want to do is to bash Stef. So it is clearly something personal. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Second...I will tell you what I remember. I do remember Stef suggesting/complaining about Newspeak as well as other none-very-smalltalk-related projects (I don't remember which were the other). I remember Stef was not the only one, but most of the mentors agreed to the same. And in fact, it made sense. WE wanted to use ESUG infrastructure. That means using its resources, its setup, its administrator, accountant, etc. Do you think all this setup comes from free? So....even if it was not the case, but imagine for a second that ESUG has certain thoughts about being used as the GSoC organization, then I think we should listen and discuss to get to an agreement. Otherwise, it is easy, use your own organization and that's all. I am NOT saying we should do what ESUG says.... I am just saying ESUG board opinions should be considered along with the community if ESUG wants to be used as Mentoring Organization. Same reason if we would like to use Newspeak for some Smalltalk-related projects. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Third, I never ever remember Stef "forcing" me to do that. I cannot remember more than a "recommendation". If there is something I did (I do not even remember), I did it myself. </div>
<div><br></div><div>
But again... I really don't understand at all why this discussion now....</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Janko Mivšek <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:janko.mivsek@eranova.si" target="_blank">janko.mivsek@eranova.si</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Time therefore to expose that sad story from GSoC 2010. So that the<br>
community can judge by themselves if my claims are insults or real.<br>
<br>
For the start, this was not a money matter but meddling into project<br>
selection process.<br>
<br>
Here is the story:<br>
<br>
On GSoC 2010 Gilad Bracha proposed a Newspeak/Smalltalk Import/Export<br>
Tool project idea [1]. After the idea was put on ideas list [2],<br>
Stéphane Ducasse ordered my co-admin to remove Gilad's idea from the<br>
list. Co-admin told that to me. I was shocked that someone can come to<br>
such an idea to remove something even in the idea phase from the GSoC.<br>
Of course I rejected such an order immediately.<br>
<br>
Even more, co-admin was at that time just starting the postgraduade<br>
study under the Mr.Ducasse mentorship. You can imagine how he felt, like<br>
between two fires. It is reasonable therefore to suspect that Mr.Duccase<br>
uses his power as a mentor over postgraduate student to try to achieve<br>
his goal.<br>
<br>
What was the motivation of Mr.Ducasse to made such a blatant act was not<br>
quite clear to me. And is also not important. Important is that such<br>
removal attempts are totally unacceptable. Only GSoC mentors have that<br>
right by reviewing and voting on the projects to be finally selected for<br>
stipendiums.<br>
<br>
In any case, this incident was a start of my thinking and working on<br>
GSoC to be as transparent, neutral and independent as possible.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
Janko<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool" target="_blank">http://gsoc2010.esug.org/projects/newspeak-tool</a><br>
[2] <a href="http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas" target="_blank">http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dne 10. 02. 2014 15:30, piše Stéphane Ducasse:<br>
> I can tell you that until now I took that as a little crisis of Janko but now this makes me sick.<br>
> I do not think that I will stand in the same room than him in the future.<br>
><br>
> Sorry Janko you are insulting people publicly but you mention that you don't.<br>
> I will check if I have a lawyer to handle this situation because you cannot have just words against me.<br>
> I will check with the inria lawyer first.<br>
><br>
> Stef<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> I do not understand the motivation of Janko, especially since he is apparently alone to think that way.<br>
>> It is impressive to see how fragile the community is.<br>
>> Thanks Paolo and thanks the ESUG board for handling this difficult situation!<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Alexandre<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 7:14 AM, Tudor Girba <<a href="mailto:tudor@tudorgirba.com">tudor@tudorgirba.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> I support it, too.<br>
>>><br>
>>> The only path to action I see is to act. And in this situation, Paolo was the only one that offered a pragmatic way out. Thank you, Paolo! :)<br>
>>><br>
>>> So, I suggest this:<br>
>>> - we take Marcus' suggestion and have the present issue be handled at the next ESUG general assembly. Like this we ensure that the problem is going to be addressed in a more effective environment (namely, more structured, and not via mail).<br>
>>> - we go forward with Paolo as an admin. Like this we ensure that action happens now.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers,<br>
>>> Doru<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <<a href="mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com">estebanlm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> I support this, along with a general require that you keep this discussion in private.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Esteban<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 10 Feb 2014, at 12:10, Stephan Eggermont <<a href="mailto:stephan@stack.nl">stephan@stack.nl</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> I no longer have confidence in Janko running as GSoC admin<br>
>>>> and want Paolo to take over as admin for Esug as mentoring organisation.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Stephan Eggermont<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Esug-list mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Esug-list@lists.esug.org">Esug-list@lists.esug.org</a><br>
>>>> <a href="http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org" target="_blank">http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Esug-list mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Esug-list@lists.esug.org">Esug-list@lists.esug.org</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org" target="_blank">http://lists.esug.org/mailman/listinfo/esug-list_lists.esug.org</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.tudorgirba.com" target="_blank">www.tudorgirba.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> "Every thing has its own flow"<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:<br>
>> Alexandre Bergel <a href="http://www.bergel.eu" target="_blank">http://www.bergel.eu</a><br>
>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">>><br>
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><br>
<br>
--<br>
Janko Mivšek<br>
Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Mariano<br><a href="http://marianopeck.wordpress.com" target="_blank">http://marianopeck.wordpress.com</a><br>
</div>