<div dir="ltr">Hi Chris,<div><br></div><div> my message was in no way an outburst. Merely a plea that folks not release old VMs. I misread your paragraph about the 2776 VM, and saw it as a proposal to release using the 2776 VM. Apologies. I'm still jet lagged...</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Chris Muller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ma.chris.m@gmail.com" target="_blank">ma.chris.m@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">>> Hi Bernard,<br>
>><br>
>>> Thanks for your answer! See below.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Am 31.08.2014 um 09:50 schrieb Nicolas Cellier <<a href="mailto:nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com">nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
>>>> 2014-08-30 15:31 GMT+02:00 Bernhard Pieber <<a href="mailto:bernhard@pieber.com">bernhard@pieber.com</a>>:<br>
>>>>> Dear fellow Squeakers,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I continued my quest to create a current clean 4.6 trunk imge and still run into problems.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I am on OS X 10.9.4. I use Eliot's latest Cog.app and the 4.5 release image (Squeak4.5-13680.image) from the FTP server. See here [1] for the bash commands I use to set up my starting point.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Then I execute the following script in a workspace:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> MCMcmUpdater<br>
>>>>> defaultUpdateURL: '<a href="http://source.squeak.org/trunk" target="_blank">http://source.squeak.org/trunk</a>';<br>
>>>>> updateFromServer.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> During processing of update-eem.287.mcm a popup menu appears saying that the Squeak4.5-13680.changes file does not exist. This is incorrect because the file exists. When I choose Debug I get FileDoesNotExistException. See the attached PNG and SqueakDebug.log.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I would be interested if others run into the same problem.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> It happens to me from time to time.<br>
>>> It's a consolation to know that I am not the only one seeing this. With the process I follow I have it every time, i.e. I can reliably reproduce it.<br>
>><br>
>> This is really strange Bernnard. But one thing to remember is that<br>
>> the 13680 image has a corruption. Search the mailing list for<br>
>> subject: "(Environment named: #Smalltalk) trap in 4.5." That thread<br>
>> explains the corruption related to having String-key's in an<br>
>> IdentityDictionary..<br>
>><br>
>> Could you try updating your 13680 image from the 'squeak45' repository<br>
>> FIRST, to ensure you get my fix for that BEFORE you change to trunk.<br>
>> This will take you to 13687. THEN you can change your updateUrl to<br>
>> trunk and update from there. Does that help on your end at all?<br>
>><br>
>> I just tried it both ways but didn't experience the issues you did<br>
>> whether I updated from squeak45 first or not. No dirty packages, and<br>
>> your Error catch select: produced no errors but returned an empty<br>
>> collection for me.<br>
>><br>
>> But I'm going from Linux and using the 2776 VM which ships with 4.5.<br>
>> I think that is the most reliable VM right now. I'm curious if you<br>
>> reproduce my steps above whether it reproduces my success?<br>
><br>
> Please NO, NO and thrice NO. Each VM I post on my site is posted because it fixes some bug or achieves some performance improvement or adds functionality. 2776 is old. It contains bugs fixed by subsequent releases. Unless you have regression treats showing failures with later VMs you should use the latest VM available.<br>
<br>
</div></div>Sheesh Eliot. I assume your outburst is by my statement that "I think<br>
2776 is the most reliable right now". If so, fine, I stand corrected<br>
but 1) I said "think" which implies a degree of uncertainty, and 2)<br>
we're not talking about Cog right now, we're simply trying to<br>
establish consisten reproducibility of Bernard's issue, of which the<br>
VM is a major component.<br>
<br>
In this case, the failure occurred when Bernard used the latest VM on<br>
Mac, but didn't when I used 2776 on Linux.<br>
<br>
I also wanted to test it with the actual VM that was released WITH<br>
Squeak-4.5, so I can assess whether the problem Bernard is having<br>
could potentially affect new Squeak users using the All-In-One. Is<br>
that okay?<br>
<div class=""><br>
> Note that there is significant regression testing of Newspeak VMs at Cadence.<br>
<br>
</div>Okay, so the difference in reproducibility is probably not the VM,<br>
still, I hope you won't mind if I MENTION what VM I used. I'll try to<br>
be careful in the future about making any statements about relative<br>
quality to newer versions.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> Releasing old VMs just makes everyone's life harder. I have to explain that it's not the latest, and they have to upload it. So /please/ use the latest VM available.<br>
<br>
</div>Who is releasing old VM's? Not I.<br>
<br>
As for using the latest, please understand I have a lot on my plate<br>
right now. Like when a new motherboard BIOS is released, I don't<br>
immediately shut everything down to update it unless there's a good<br>
reason to. I can always go forward if problems develop, but going<br>
backward is not easy.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Chris<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>best,<div>Eliot</div>
</div>