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This is all about the future. But how do I get rid of the automatic
$) NOW?<br>
I'm not quarreling with other people's preferences, only that I
personally need the option to work without it.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 24.02.2015 10:32, Eliot Miranda
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:44FF4BCC-343B-4630-BD85-2A7D6EFA02D6@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Feb 23, 2015, at 7:25 PM, Bert Freudenberg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de"><bert@freudenbergs.de></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(moving to squeak-dev)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 22.02.2015, at 14:40, Chris Muller <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com"><asqueaker@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Some people like this preference a lot. Others think it is horrible.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
This implmenentation is not the best. The one in E/OCompletion is better.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
I love the feature (in other editors), but hate its current behavior. If that one is better, why don't we use that?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
This preference is part of the low-level interface which affects the
overall fidelity of the Squeak user-experience. If we are going to
make any changes to this, may we please start it out in the Inbox
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
The onus is actually on whoever enabled this feature by default before it was mature, IMNSHO. Until we fix it properly (see below) we need to turn it off.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">where we can all try it and discuss it in more objective terms than
"love", "hate", "better" and "horrible"?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
"Horrible" is a technically accurate description in this case ;)
Because it interferes with the user's wishes. It gets in the way unless you consciously anticipate how it's going to mess with what you type. And it doesn't have to, as other editors clearly demonstrate.
If I am blindly typing
(foo)
I expect to end up with
(foo)
In current Squeak I end up with
(foo))
which is clearly wrong and extremely annoying and makes me hate the feature.
For an editor that gets it right, try ACE online ( <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ace.c9.io/">http://ace.c9.io/</a> ). If an editor does auto-insertion, it *must* keep track of that and anticipate the user typing the corresponding characters. E.g. in ACE I can type
[('foo
and get
[('foo')]
but then I can proceed to type
')]
end it will just skip over the auto-inserted part. Similarly in Squeak when typing
[(2)+(3)]
it results in
[(2)+(3)]))]
but in ACE it gets me
[(2)+(3)]
which is so obviously right I'm not even sure how anyone could argue Squeak's is not horribly broken.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
+1. Hate is not too strong a word. Horribly broken is accurate. Given that Smalltalk has had control-enclose for decades that is useful and predictable we don't need something poorly engineered. Can we either get it right or get rid of it, please?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So, as others have pointed out, it's not that we don't want the editor to be helpful, it is a very useful feature, but it must be mindful of what the user wants.
- Bert -
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">The essence of object orientation is
that objects <span class="GramE">collaborate<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>to</span> achieve a
goal. </span></i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><br>
<span class="SpellE">Trygve</span> <span class="SpellE">Reenskaug</span> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><a href="mailto:%20trygver@ifi.uio.no"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US">mailto: trygver@ifi.uio.no</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"><br>
<span class="SpellE">Morgedalsvn</span>.
5A </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman""><a
href="http://folk.uio.no/trygver/"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">http://folk.uio.no/trygver/</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><br>
N-0378
Oslo </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman""><a href="http://fullOO.info"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">http://fullOO.info</span></a></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New Roman";
mso-ansi-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US"><br>
Norway Tel:
(+47) 22 49 57 27 </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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