<div dir="ltr">IMHO we should reconsider how project saving works. ImageSegments were a good technology back when machines and the interpreter VM was slow. Now we have faster machines and VMs so this very VM-dependent mechanism is no needed anymore.<div><br></div><div>Yoshiki's S-Expression format is one way to serialize, yes. We have used it for the QuickGuide projects in the Squeakland image. In the short term it's a good option. However, for more general project saving we may want to take a look at other serialization schemes.</div><div> </div><div>I think we should deprecate ImageSegment. Is there any active use of them? I seem to remember SqueakMap used them but I'm not sure.</div><div><br></div><div>- Bert -</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Tim Felgentreff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:timfelgentreff@gmail.com" target="_blank">timfelgentreff@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Hi, </p>
<p dir="ltr">in the process of updating Squeakland etoys to load in 5.1,we have also made the sexp format project saving and loading work again. This might be a VM independent way forward for storing projects. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Regarding loading old projects, Bert has an experimental OldSegmentLoader that can load pre-Spur segments into 5.1</p>
<p dir="ltr">best,<br>
Tim </p><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">Herbert König <<a href="mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net" target="_blank">herbertkoenig@gmx.net</a>> schrieb am Fr., 26. Aug. 2016, 15:40:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Thanks Hannes,<br>
<br>
I'll let you know.<br>
<br>
A typical image of mine contains lots of projects with documentation<br>
and ideas I need to be able to save.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Herbert<br>
<br>
Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:43:06 +0100<br>
schrieb "H. Hirzel" <<a href="mailto:hannes.hirzel@gmail.com" target="_blank">hannes.hirzel@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
> Hallo Herbert<br>
><br>
> I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.<br>
><br>
> I think it was<br>
><br>
> 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image<br>
> (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forum.world.st/The-<wbr>Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-<wbr>td4864083.html</a><br>
> <a href="http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forum.world.st/The-<wbr>Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-<wbr>td4864086.html</a><br>
> <a href="http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forum.world.st/The-<wbr>Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-<wbr>td4864087.html</a><br>
> <a href="http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forum.world.st/The-<wbr>Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-<wbr>td4864091.html</a><br>
><br>
> It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image<br>
> from the archive and try to recover what I did.<br>
><br>
> --Hannes<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <<a href="mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net" target="_blank">herbertkoenig@gmx.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> > Hi Hannes,<br>
> ><br>
> > any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use<br>
> > 4.4 for development and later versions just for deployment.<br>
> ><br>
> > Thanks,<br>
> ><br>
> > Herbert<br>
> ><br>
> > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100<br>
> > schrieb "H. Hirzel" <<a href="mailto:hannes.hirzel@gmail.com" target="_blank">hannes.hirzel@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> ><br>
> >> Hello Vaidotas<br>
> >><br>
> >> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in<br>
> >> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did<br>
> >> some tests then.<br>
> >><br>
> >> The 64bit image is experimental.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in<br>
> >> MSWindows and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to<br>
> >> wait for a VM update.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Regards<br>
> >> Hannes<br>
> >><br>
> >> [1] <a href="http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/<wbr>6218</a><br>
> >> <citation><br>
> >> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects<br>
> >> in a Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however.<br>
> >> The Spur VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on<br>
> >> the VM list. It also fails to load an image segment - looks like<br>
> >> the primitive for that isn't quite finished in Spur.<br>
> >> </citation><br>
> >><br>
> >> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <<a href="mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net" target="_blank">herbertkoenig@gmx.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> >> > Hi Vaidotas,<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > according to the end of<br>
> >> > <a href="http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/<wbr>6218</a><br>
> >> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too<br>
> >> > deeply entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible<br>
> >> > to remove them again.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > And then some people may use them.<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Cheers,<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Herbert<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300<br>
> >> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <<a href="mailto:vaidasd@gmail.com" target="_blank">vaidasd@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> >> Hello,<br>
> >> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to<br>
> >> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of<br>
> >> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS<br>
> >> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the<br>
> >> >> Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session<br>
> >> >> of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with<br>
> >> >> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments?<br>
> >> >> Can they be removed? Why Environments is not loadable package?<br>
> >> >> regards, Vaidotas<br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >> ><br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div><br><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>