<div dir="ltr">Hi Bert, Hi David,<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Bert Freudenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de" target="_blank">bert@freudenbergs.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">On 12 April 2018 at 22:45, John McIntosh </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><<a href="mailto:johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com" target="_blank">johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.<wbr>com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Actually it is a 64bit compiled application that works with 32bit images, there was also a 64bit application that works with 64bit images. However was Eliot points out the format of a 64bit image is different because it has other immediate types, and different context structures. The original 64bit image type didn't have any of those changes. </div></blockquote></span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>+1</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The Spur image, yes.</span><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">But we're only talking about running a 32 bit image on a 64 bit VM. Here's a refresher on the terminology:</div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><a href="http://squeakvm.org/squeak64/faq.html" target="_blank">http://squeakvm.org/squeak64/<wbr>faq.html</a></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>So am I being a prima donna by finding this page misleading? It's referring to a system that few if any people use. It doesn't mention that we have a 64-bit system that is much faster, has a full FFI, etc. Shouldn't this page at least say that there is a more modern 64-bit system along with a URL, and state that this VM is effectively obsolete? Does this come over like me trying to kill the old VM? I wish people would be frank about their feelings (if any) here rather than keeping silent. I don't want to offend, but I do want to provide high-performance functional systems with the person power we have available, and provide good information to the new user. I do feel frustrated when I see the old 64-bit system still described as if it's current. I wonder if people feel as strongly for the old 64-bit system.</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Bert -<br></div><br></font></span></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="m_-1609963972648778253gmail-h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Bert Freudenberg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de" target="_blank">bert@freudenbergs.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 April 2018 at 16:31, Tobias Pape <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Das.Linux@gmx.de" target="_blank">Das.Linux@gmx.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Hi <br><blockquote type="cite">On 12.04.2018, at 16:05, Eliot Miranda <<a href="mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com" target="_blank">eliot.miranda@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>Hi Bert,<span><br><br><br>On Apr 12, 2018, at 6:03 AM, Bert Freudenberg <<a href="mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de" target="_blank">bert@freudenbergs.de</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">If that's indeed the case we need to make a 64 bit VM for 32 bit images. I think this should be just a matter of picking the right compiler options.<br></blockquote><br></span>How so? AFAIA it is not. It means, for example, changing every memory access for an instance variable from 64 to 32 bits. It is non-trivial.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>But wasn't that done once already?</div><div><br></div><div>I see Squeak 5.7.4.1 (John Macintosh did it I think).</div><div>Wich advertises itself as</div><div><img id="m_-1609963972648778253gmail-m_4259280904486162438m_3232526783432896028m_835808206385109338118D10F12-7B77-4D3A-8308-572652F01A86" height="21" width="176" src="cid:891DE8B9-5BF4-43C0-AE3C-4FE4DB2755A0@l.certwifi.com"></div><div><br></div><div>and worked very well. Not saying every bits are there for the present (spur etc)</div><div>but at least, we have been there already at least once…</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Yep. Its just the 32 bit VM compiled on a 64 bit host. This worked without big problems on the interpreter. I don't know what additional constraints are imposed by Cog / Spur, but I thought at least for intel, the 32 bit instruction set was a strict subset of x64, so there should be no big problems.</div><span class="m_-1609963972648778253gmail-m_4259280904486162438HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Bert -</div><br></font></span></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="m_-1609963972648778253gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div class="m_-1609963972648778253gmail-m_4259280904486162438gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">==============================<wbr>==============================<wbr>===============<br>John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/i<wbr>n/smalltalk</a><br>==============================<wbr>==============================<wbr>===============<br></div></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:small;border-collapse:separate"><div>_,,,^..^,,,_<br></div><div>best, Eliot</div></span></div></div></div>
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