<div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Hi Levente,</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">meant. My own criteria is "methods which are called thousands of times per minute" _today_. <br></blockquote></span></blockquote><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">A rule of thumb could be that if a core method (e.g. anything in Kernel/Collections) is part of an API and it's not there to support a very specific task (e.g. Dictionary >> #associationDeclareAt:), then its performance should be taken into account.<br></blockquote><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">That sounds like it only exempts utility methods ("specific tasks"). Technically, this should leave me afraid that you might want to inline Dictionary>>#at:, but I'm relatively sure you don't. #at: is the most basic featured accessing method for understanding and using a Dictionary, so I hope you agree that's one that should retain its exemplar status.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">OTOH, #associationDeclareAt: and #isOctetString, by their nature, are only of interest to developers. Users would never use those methods, so optimizing them would be fine I suppose. Methods which take block arguments also tend to be not as usable by users, since passing a block requries writing some code. So it seems we have _some_ concrete criteria starting to form simply by having looked at a few examples:</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> - methods which run hundreds of times per minute</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> - methods which take block as arguments</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"> - methods which are concerned with internals instead of externals</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">#isAsciiString seems like it could go either way, so I'm fine if you and Eliot prefer it to be optimized. For me this discussion itself to get a slightly better understanding of each others' positions with the request to keep Dynabook users in mind when evaluating future such optimizations, <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">is more important</span>.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div> Chris</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Levente Uzonyi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:leves@caesar.elte.hu" target="_blank">leves@caesar.elte.hu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">On Thu, 3 May 2018, Chris Muller wrote:<br>
<br>
</span><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On a serious note, libary methods, like that method, ought to be fast,<br>
<br>
<br>
Every method in the image is a library method, so what do you mean by<br>
<br>
<br>
Really? Explain me how Browser >> #defaultBrowserTitle, a method I chose randomly, is a library method?<br>
<br>
<br>
Well, I was actually asking for clarification from _you_ for the meaning of "library method", since you were the one assigning an "ought" to them :). So I started out with it meaning, "every method in the base image", as a means to open up the question of what you<br>
meant. My own criteria is "methods which are called thousands of times per minute" _today_. But as the guy whose done more of these sorts of method optimizations than anyone (most of which I love), I am actually *truly curious* about YOUR criteria on this. What<br>
methods in the image would Levente prefer to be more readable than performant, and why?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
I can't give you an exact definition of a "library method", but I'm sure that String >> #isAsciiString is one, while Browser >> #defaultBrowserTitle is not.<br>
A rule of thumb could be that if a core method (e.g. anything in Kernel/Collections) is part of an API and it's not there to support a very specific task (e.g. Dictionary >> #associationDeclareAt:), then its performance should be taken into account.<br>
<br>
Btw, please have a look at String >> #isOctetString.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Levente</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
<br>
> ....<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
because you can't know in what situation they will be used. Saying that it's<br>
not even used is therefore not a valid reason.<br>
<br>
<br>
That's only true for the very lowest-level methods. Generally, it's<br>
better to design and code for what's known, and NOT try to code for<br>
the future / unknown. IF and when that future comes, it'd be easy<br>
enough for you to deal with any performance issues at THAT time. In<br>
the meantime, we "ought" :) to keep as much beautiful minimal<br>
elegance as we can.<br>
<br>
<br>
So, if I decided to write a mail transfer agent, and I found that optimizing #isAsciiString would bump the throughput by, let's say, 10%, then and only then would I be allowed to change the implementation in Squeak? Or should I keep my optimized version in<br>
my image, because it's not considered generally useful?<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes. That's when you'll have the concrete context necessary to enable you to make the best implementation choice. Until then, degrading code readability in exchange for no real-world performance benefit just... well, degrades the code...<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>