<html><body><div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Well, at least on Mac OS, the fact that Squeak doesn’t work right off the bat is probably a turnoff for most users, especially since there don’t seem to be any instructions on what to after you get this (I just tested this):</span><br style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"></div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><img src="cid:718feaae-f5a0-4185-846f-a6ae6b847425@icloud.com" class="_auto-scale " alt="Screenshot 2018-05-31 00.38.19-2.png" title="Screenshot 2018-05-31 00.38.19-2.png" style="margin: 10px 10px 10px 0px;" data-inline-image="true" data-mce-style="margin: 10px 10px 10px 0px;"></span></div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; float: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; float: none;">I mean, it's a 32 bit app (running on Mac OS 10.13.4) and you can't save the image. What good is it? It's worse than non-functional. It seems to me that a lot of people would just give up on it. I'm still running 4.6 because at least it works on Mac OS without having to screw around, trying to figure out what does work. And doing things not related to programming is what the small Squeak community obviously wants beginners to do. If Squeak was a so hard to use back in 2000, I would have abandoned it immediately.</span></span></div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; float: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; float: none;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; float: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; display: inline !important; float: none;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></span></div><div style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none;"><span style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" data-mce-style="caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: SFNSText, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;"><br data-mce-bogus="1"></span></div></div><div><br>On May 31, 2018, at 12:24 AM, "H. Hirzel" <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="msg-quote"><div class="_stretch"><span class="body-text-content">On 5/31/18, John Pfersich <smalltalker2@mac.com> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">I think the AIO causes more problems than it’s worth. Does it work in</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Windows better than it does in Mac OS and Linux? I hope so, because it only</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">works for rank beginners on the latter platforms.</blockquote><br>This is the question of the target user group.<br><br>As Bert mentions Etoys-to-go on a pen drive (use your environment in<br>school, e.g. Mac and at home Windows-PC) _is_ an issue. But as I just<br>write in the previous mail probably it has to be put on the<br>back-burner at the moment ....<br><br>The user group of "beginners" is also the one which is the largest<br>group of users!<br><br><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">/————————————————————/</blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Encrypted email at <a href="mailto:jgpfersich@protonmail.com" data-mce-href="mailto:jgpfersich@protonmail.com">jgpfersich@protonmail.com</a></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Web: <a href="http://www.objectnets.net" data-mce-href="http://www.objectnets.net">http://www.objectnets.net</a> and <a href="http://www.objectnets.org" data-mce-href="http://www.objectnets.org">http://www.objectnets.org</a></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">On May 30, 2018, at 07:59, Tobias Pape <Das.Linux@gmx.de> wrote:</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">HI</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">On 30.05.2018, at 15:30, H. Hirzel <hannes.hirzel@gmail.com> wrote:</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Chris Muller</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 3:14 AM</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">AIO provides a compact example file of everything needed to deploy an</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">application on each of the top platforms. For no more than its</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">instructional value, it is something worth keeping, IMO.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">The AIO _is_ the application. Good to run off a pen drive as well in a</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">platform independent way.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">It does not need to be built regularily.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Just for the release is fine.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">But the AIO is impractical.</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Eg, for OSX we _must_ force users now to _move_ the .app bundle before</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">starting it the first time, else things just do not work. The only viable</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Way I see for that is building read-only disk images, so that people must</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">move the app.</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">However, nobody else can use DMGs, so we have two things already:</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">- ZIP</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">- DMG</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">And now that snaps (<a href="https://snapcraft.io/" data-mce-href="https://snapcraft.io/">https://snapcraft.io/</a>) enter the stage for linux, we</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">have at least to _consider_ that, too.</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">And when signing comes into play, this is getting too complex for me.</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">I completely the understand the desirability of a portable app, but given</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">we;re not a near-stateless browser and given our "workforce", I don't see</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">this happen reliably in the forthcoming time.</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Best regards</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">-Tobias</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">On 5/30/18, David T. Lewis <lewis@mail.msen.com> wrote:</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 07:22:28AM +0200, Tobias Pape wrote:</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">On 30.05.2018, at 01:40, Edgar De Cleene <edgardec2005@gmail.com></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">wrote:</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">On 29 May 2018, at 15:42, karl ramberg <karlramberg@gmail.com> wrote:</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Making it easier to find and download new VM builds should be a</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">priority.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">It's quite hard to find a recent VM following links from <a href="http://squeak.org" data-mce-href="http://squeak.org">squeak.org</a></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">This scared beginners</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">All in one should have the most stable and recent</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Let's face it: the All-in-ones are dead.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Apple makes it harder than ever and for linux we should have start</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">building platform packages long ago.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">This topic deserves a new subject line, and it would be great to get</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">some</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">more input regarding who prefers using the All-In-One distribution for</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">regular use, versus other approaches for organizing their image and VM.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">My personal view is that the All-In-One is a valuable enhancement to</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">the basic image and VM downloads. I do not think that it is practical</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">to maintain it as the primary release artifact, but I do think that we</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">should provide it, as best we can, in addition to the primary image and</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">VM release downloads.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text">Dave</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class="quoted-plain-text"><br></blockquote><br></span></div></div></blockquote></div></body></html>