<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Eliot <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Contrary to you I do not wish your death. </div><div class="">So can you respect me?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Stef<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 17 Feb 2019, at 22:30, Eliot Miranda <<a href="mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com" class="">eliot.miranda@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 17, 2019 at 1:00 PM ducasse <<a href="mailto:stepharo@netcourrier.com" class="">stepharo@netcourrier.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi eliot<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What is common in your thread is that we always look like the super emotional, or bad guys. </div><div class="">You never ask yourselves why Esteban left the VM mailing-list. </div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What is common is that I discuss technical matters (difficulties in using Tonel/git, architectural issues with developing the VM) and organizational issues (Estebans' unhelpful response regarding an option in Tonel) and you immediately personalize, do not bring up a single technical issue, and then make grand pronouncements like :this is the last email I'll send you". Laughable and sad.</div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And I do not see why you cannot fork Tonel to produce your own version. </div><div class="">Git is about distributed projects. People do that all the time. You can take Tonel and hack it to death</div><div class="">without having your hacks pushed back into Pharo and this is perfectly ok for us. </div><div class="">So Esteban has the right to say no and you have the right to hack your own version. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you want to have some support for porting Scorch/Sista to github and loading you should ask </div><div class="">but asking it more nicely. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">About the simulation of the UI, if you do not talk to us we cannot pay attention.</div><div class="">I do not see why we cannot keep a package with the image level UI for the simulator. </div><div class="">Now again you are talking about collaboration but you do not talk to us and you do not </div><div class="">listen to us so do not expect that people are willing to spend their free time to help.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">I had deep concerns that the pursuit of git integration would end up splitting the Pharo and Squeak communities and indeed this is now in progress. I am utterly unmotivated by the lack of cooperation, the sheer arrogance and bullying of those that say "you will move to git/tonel or else”,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is fun to ask Pharo not to grow up to use modern technology to manage source code under the </div><div class="">premisses that Squeak cannot or will not. </div><div class="">This is so funny how you state it. I will not comment more than that.</div></div><div class="">People around are adults and they will be able to judge by themselves. </div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">and considering leaving VMMaker altogether. </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">If you leave VMMaker, let us know because we will port it to Github and make it work in Pharo. </div><div class="">Esteban did it several times in the past. At least this will have the benefit to clarify the situation. </div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think that this is good that you tell us that you do not want to cooperate with us. </div><div class="">This will have at least the impact to kick our ass and pay attention to us. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="">The only things that are keeping me interested are Ron Teitelbaum's Terf and me pursuing a PhD on register allocation in the context of Sista/Scorch with Robert Hirshfeld's group at HPI.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here's the kind of crap people like Ducasse throw at me:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">"<span class="">Eliot </span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="gmail-m_-939927328971610721gmail-il">At</span> the <span class="gmail-m_-939927328971610721gmail-il">end</span> of the <span class="gmail-m_-939927328971610721gmail-il">day</span> I will probably ask the two phds that should work <span class="gmail-m_-939927328971610721gmail-il">on</span> language design to use truffle or pypy</div><div class="">because let us face it we cannot work with the Pharo VM. Else we will simply have to fork it (because we do not want to have </div><div class="">to jump over cuis, newspeak, squeak code constraints and I do not what) and it will be another drama is <span class="gmail-m_-939927328971610721gmail-il">in</span> the pico world </div><div class="">of the “open” smalltalk VM. "</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am so over this crap.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is not a crap. I can restate what I said. Because of responsibility of a research team and creating a future for students. You know I’m not alone, I have quite some responsibility towards PhD students</div><div class=""><div class="">of my group and yes I cannot make them fail by construction (or produce unadequate results)</div><div class="">just by imposing them to use a system with far too many constraints. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I will not ask them to work on the openSmalltalk vm directly because this is not their responsibilities</div><div class="">to have to jump over newspeak ifdef and others. A job of a PhD is to be able to brainstorm and create new ideas. Look at Stefan Marr (He is working on SOM or Truffle). </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Now you can think that I’m an asshole, arrogant, or I do not know pick what you want.</div><div class="">***I do not care***. I do not have Diva syndrome I have responsibilities towards people. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I was discussing with some truffle experts and they told me that this is can be complex. I believe it. </div><div class="">I would like to avoid pypy for obvious reasons. So what we will probably do for their PhD is to see if we can use a light version of opensmalltalk. I do not want to ask them to jump over many things that are totally useless for them all the time. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">PS: personnally I do not get why VMMaker would be the only project on earth that cannot be managed using git and Pharo. </div><div class="">But for us the future is Git and we will continue to build on this infrastructure. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Stef</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail-m_-939927328971610721gmail-m_-2601350501237284002gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size: small; border-collapse: separate;" class=""><div class="">_,,,^..^,,,_<br class=""></div><div class="">best, Eliot</div></span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br class=""></div><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><span style="font-size: small; border-collapse: separate;" class=""><div class="">_,,,^..^,,,_<br class=""></div><div class="">best, Eliot</div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">--------------------------------------------</div><div class="">Stéphane Ducasse</div><div class=""><a href="http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr" class="">http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr</a></div><div class=""><a href="http://www.synectique.eu" class="">http://www.synectique.eu</a> / <a href="http://www.pharo.org" class="">http://www.pharo.org</a> </div><div class="">03 59 35 87 52</div><div class="">Assistant: Julie Jonas </div><div class="">FAX 03 59 57 78 50</div><div class="">TEL 03 59 35 86 16</div><div class="">S. Ducasse - Inria</div><div class="">40, avenue Halley, </div><div class="">Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza</div><div class=""><div class="">Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650</div><div class="">France</div></div></div></div></div></div>
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