<div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 at 07:38, Nicola Mingotti <<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com">nmingotti@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br></div><div>Hi Karl,</div><div><br></div><div>In my opinion there is no doubt the Etoys is inferior in power to pure text programming. But I suppose that was never an objective, since, for example in the Etoys variables you can't use Collections. What could you do in Smalltalk without Collections? ;)</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe with time I will realize Etoys is hopeless too, but for the moment I find it kind of cool. I am going to spend a bit more time exploring it. </div><div><br></div><div>bye</div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>Nicola</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div></div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto">Etoys is quite nice for it’s intended use :-)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">You can use holders for collections.</div><div dir="auto">Here is a project that use holders for collections:</div><div dir="auto"><div><a href="http://www.squeakland.org/content/showcase/everyone/accounts/karl/maze%20constructor.021.pr">http://www.squeakland.org/content/showcase/everyone/accounts/karl/maze%20constructor.021.pr</a></div><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Best regards,</div><div dir="auto">Karl</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 20, 2019, at 11:06 AM, karl ramberg <<a href="mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">karlramberg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><br><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:15px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 7:19 PM K K Subbu <<a href="mailto:kksubbu.ml@gmail.com" target="_blank">kksubbu.ml@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Karl,<br><br>I recall the tile-based scripting code was designed to introduce<br>programming concepts to young children (1-5th grade). The stage metaphor<span> </span><br>(players, costumers, scripts, timing) are easy for them to understand.<br><br>Once children are old enough to type and use keyboard, they can switch<span> </span><br>over to using text and use the full power of Squeak.<br><br>Not sure what you mean by "the premise is flawed". It works very well<span> </span><br>for its intended audience.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I mean it's hard to program so to start tile scripting seems like a good idea.<br></div><div>But the leverage you get from using tiles is surpassed within a few projects.</div><div>Anything more complex than 10 scripts or is really cumbersome.</div><div>Also any complex scripts are also hard to deal with. Text for this is far superior.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm sure tile scripting has its use but I'm not very motivated to develop and enhance<br></div><div>etoys anymore. I used to do a lot of work for the Etoys image for OLPC.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Karl</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>Regards .. Subbu<br><br>On 19/10/19 11:08 PM, karl ramberg wrote:<br>> I’m not working so much on tile scripting anymore<br>><span> </span><br>> The main issue is scaleability of tile scripting in regards to writing<span> </span><br>> text scripts and programs. I have worked a lot with etoys and while I<span> </span><br>> find the concept appealing but I have yet to write anything project<span> </span><br>> bigger than a dozen scripts. I find it hard to build bigger stuff. Maybe<span> </span><br>> it’s tooling but my main suspicion is that the premise is flawed.<br>> Text is superior to tiles. Programming is really hard. Writing text<span> </span><br>> scales better than tiles because it is less rigid and easier to deal<span> </span><br>> with than tiles.<br>><span> </span><br>> Best,<br>> Karl<br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 at 05:32, Nicola Mingotti <<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a><span> </span><br>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>> Hi Karl,<br>><span> </span><br>> The feature is very promising.<br>><span> </span><br>> It would be more than useful, I think it would strike the<br>> imagination of new potential user if I/whoever would show it in a<br>> video.<br>><span> </span><br>> Consider this, in all other languages to keep an eye on a silly<br>> variable the fastest way is to print in stdout. This is something<br>> that Typing Joe did thousands of times.<br>> It is extremely ugly and messy. I keep printing in Transcript myself<br>> and I dislike it. I do only because it is fast to implement.<br>><span> </span><br>> If you are working on it let me know when you have reached a<br>> landmark. I may illustrate the feature in a new video.<br>><span> </span><br>> bye<br>> Nicola<br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 12:55 PM, karl ramberg <<a href="mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">karlramberg@gmail.com</a><br>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">karlramberg@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> Hi,<br>>> I understand what you talk about now :-)<br>>> This functionality is experimental. I think it was part of a plan<br>>> to make tile scripting more general but it never not finished.<br>>><br>>> Best,<br>>> Karl<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 7:37 AM Nicola Mingotti<br>>> <<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a><span> </span><mailto:<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> hi,<br>>><br>>> here is a video explaining the question<br>>><br>>> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wn9Yc7P2s&feature=youtu.be</a><br>>><br>>><br>>> bye<br>>> Nicola<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>>> On Oct 17, 2019, at 9:49 AM, karl ramberg<br>>>> <<a href="mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">karlramberg@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:karlramberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">karlramberg@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>> Hi,<br>>>> I dom't really understand what you ask here.<br>>>> Could you send a screen shot or something ?<br>>>><br>>>> Best,<br>>>> Karl<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:38 AM Nicola Mingotti<br>>>> <<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a><span> </span><mailto:<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> Hi Marcel,<br>>>><br>>>> I understand more or less how to use the Viewer on Players.<br>>>><br>>>> Indeed, I was surprised when I saw that there is a Viewer<br>>>> for a Morph !<br>>>><br>>>> And I don't understand at all how this does fit into the<br>>>> big picture nor how to use it.<br>>>><br>>>> It would be very nice if I could drag out a line from the<br>>>> Viewer and keep a variable of the Morph under my eyes in<br>>>> the World, in a tile.<br>>>><br>>>> bye<br>>>> Nicola<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>> On Oct 16, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Marcel Taeumel<br>>>>> <<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de" target="_blank">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de" target="_blank">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a>>><br>>>>> wrote:<br>>>>><br>>>>> > Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in<br>>>>> the Viewer window ?<br>>>>><br>>>>> I think you need to click on "viewer for player".<br>>>>> Players can have scripts, which are constructed from<br>>>>> those tiles.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Best,<br>>>>> Marcel<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Am 16.10.2019 00:14:23 schrieb Nicola Mingotti<br>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:nmingotti@gmail.com" target="_blank">nmingotti@gmail.com</a>>>:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Hi,<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Please follow these steps:<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> 1] Drag a RectangleMorph into the World<br>>>>>> 2] Center click over it<br>>>>>> 3] Select the wrench Halo icon (gray one)<br>>>>>> 4] Select "Viewer for Morph"<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> I see a lot of properties which I usually control via<br>>>>>> the Workspace.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Let's focus on "Rectangl Center".<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> My questions are:<br>>>>>> -] Is it normal that I don't see the variable value in<br>>>>>> the Viewer window ?<br>>>>>> -] It would be extremely useful if I could just drag<br>>>>>> out the ViewrMorphLine for "RectangleMorphCenter" into<br>>>>>> the World . So I could always check (in this case) the<br>>>>>> center of a Morph.<br>>>>>> -] More in general, I don't understand how I can use<br>>>>>> all of these tiles, can anybody give me some hints ?<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> bye<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Nicola Mingotti<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span><br>><span> </span></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><br>
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