<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">This curiosity is fun, Christoph. Some comments.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span style="font-size:12pt">When I design an interface, I often wonder whether I should store into an accessor either a block or rather a normal object. A block has a more sophisticated syntax, while normal objects can't vary dependent on an argument.</span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>An interface should be designed to be as rigid as it _can_ be, while still meeting the requirements of those running the code. As Nicolas alluded in another email, it's much easier to relax constraints than impose them. TSTTCPW really is a good axiom to try to strictly adhere to.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span style="font-size:12pt">An example: Let's assume </span><span style="font-size:12pt">Collections-mt.852 would be merged into Trunk (which uses #cull:).</span><br></div>
<div><span>Then I could say</span></div>
<div><span>
<div>Array new: 20 filledWith: [100 atRandom].<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span></div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span>
<div>or even</div>
<div><span>Array new: 20 filledWith: [:i | i ** 2].</span></div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span><div><span style="font-size:12pt">but not</span><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
Array new: 20 filledWith: 42.<br>
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<div>Instead, I would need to specify extra brackets that appear kind of redundant to me:</div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">Array new: 20 filledWith: [42]</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">.</span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span><div><span><div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">Object >> #cull: would solve this problem.</span></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think saying its a "problem" might be overstating it. Attempting to sweeten the syntax as you suggest would introduce a new trade-off -- ambiguity with how one might otherwise make an Array filled with Blocks.</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span><div><span>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">It would be also analog to the implementation of Object >> #value, which
allows you to do</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">self assert: [Boolean random].</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">as well as</span></div>
<span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">self assert: Boolean random.</span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">From this point of view, every object is already evaluable
today.</span></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I understand you on this point, however, #cull: arg when the arg will _never_ be consumed, IMO, is a red flag warning that this "blurring" may be trying to go one step too far. #value is an "accessor", calculated or not. #cull: is a more-specific responsibility of a "behavioral" object -- a Block or MessageSend -- that implies "selection" or calculation.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div> Chris</div><div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><div><span>
</span></div>
<p></p>
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<p>Looking forward to your thoughts - before or after 5.3 :-)</p>
<p><br>
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<p>Best,</p>
<p>Christoph</p>
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<div id="gmail-m_-3174689259124160026divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Von:</b> Squeak-dev <<a href="mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org" target="_blank">squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org</a>> im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 10. Dezember 2019 09:38:56<br>
<b>An:</b> John Pfersich via Squeak-dev<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [squeak-dev] Object >> #cull:</font>
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Hi Christoph,
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<div>let's discuss that after the 5.3 release.</div>
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<div>> <span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">such as blocks or MessageSends </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">Well, then BlockClosure and MessageSend would be the place to add #cull:. There is no need to put it in Object because any class can choose to freely and dynamically participate in
such a protocol. :-)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">Best,</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px">Marcel</span></div>
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<p style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin-top:10px">Am 09.12.2019 18:51:35 schrieb Thiede, Christoph <<a href="mailto:christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de" target="_blank">christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de</a>>:</p>
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<p>Hi all!</p>
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<p>Just another, possibly crazy idea: What about implementing #cull:, #cull:cull: etc. on Object?</p>
<p><br>
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<p><b>Object >> #cull: firstArg</b></p>
<p><b> ^ self value</b></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>This could improve the polymorphy between "evaluables" such as blocks or MessageSends and other objects. Example:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><span>[2 / 0] on: ZeroDivide do: Float infinity</span><br>
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<p><span><br>
</span></p>
<p><span>Some current implementations that call both #isBlock and #cull: also reveal that there might be a small break in the interface. From #haltIf:</span></p>
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<p><span>Just wanted to share that thought :) In general, do you think blurring the differences between block and object in that way might be a good idea or rather a bad one? At least we already have implemented #value on Object.</span></p>
<p><span><br>
</span></p>
<p><span>Disclaimer: I know that in many cases, you should prefer a block for performance reasons/compiler optimization, but there is still a gap between the interfaces ...</span></p>
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<p><span>Best,</span></p>
<p><span>Christoph</span></p>
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