<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 7:52 PM tim Rowledge <<a href="mailto:tim@rowledge.org">tim@rowledge.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
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> On 2019-12-29, at 5:00 PM, Chris Muller <<a href="mailto:asqueaker@gmail.com" target="_blank">asqueaker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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> Squeak's IDE should present that it understands core competencies of development, and LEAD users by not offering haphazard ways to do configuration management, e.g., "Save as...". Ultimately it's a path to nowhere, possibly even pain, and yet exacts a significant and mandatory cost to the IDE's consistency, usability and scope.<br>
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What exactly is it that you are objecting to here? You've claimed to have a much better way to save and load preferences; what is that way? What is the actual problem with providing users with a simple and familiar way to save/load a preferences file? If it is simply that you don't think preferences should be saved to files, then please separate that from complaining about any particular technique for choosing the file. After all, if there is a totally better way we want to know.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>"Show in Folder" button like in Firefox, Chrome. I already said that.. </div><div><br></div><div>I also proposed a "Select..." button, which would use your FileDialog.</div><div><br></div><div>Both proposals are existing in other apps, "familiar..."</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Similarly with saving images as different names and in different places. It isn't a common thing to do, but when you do want to do it I claim it is helpful to have a UI affordance that makes it simple. Do you actually claim it is better to use a FillInTheBlank </blockquote><div><br></div><div>YES, absolutely!!!</div><div> <br></div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">and have to remember path details to type in?</blockquote><div></div></div><div><br></div><div>Tim, please wake up, YOU are the one who has to remember a path, not me, because that's how you do configuration management -- sprinkling your .image and .prefs files around by navigating a tree widget in a modal dialog.</div><div><br></div><div>I use a configurable build system, I define everything, then Version it, then press one button. "One-click" deploy. "One-click" install. What you're doing is hundreds of clicks, error-prone...</div><div><br></div><div>Tim, what about your experience with Personal SqueakSource, does that not give you the context of what I'm describing?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Are you claiming that changing an image name should be done only in host tools? </blockquote><div><br></div><div>No, of course not, I do it all the time, that's why I can't stand the new "Save as..." popping up the FileDialog. It's a BEAST now... and for bad reasons even.. :(</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Because that will really screw up your 'flow'. Not least because of having to rename two separate files. </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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You haven't explained at all, in any way whatsoever, what is a problem. Gish-galloping around the place does nothing helpful.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I tried my best in the opening of this thread to lead your thought process, by posing that initial question, but you never really addressed it... I believe that's where "consensus" lies, but I can only lead a horse to water, not make him drink.... :/ </div><div><br></div><div>The primary purpose of Image "Save as..." is to jump into a new image to try something that might be dangerous. It is NOT, I repeat, NOT, configure your application. But that's what you want to use it for and, unfortunately, it killed user performance with the original use-case. Worse, it introduced a new place where we breach the Smalltalk sandbox at a new place where it never was before. If we take our IDE design seriously, we should think long and hard about that.</div><div><br></div><div> - Chris</div></div></div>