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Hi Jaromir --<div><br></div><div>I don't think that you want to actively manage files during regular Smalltalk programming. Workspaces are neat. They cannot only hold code but also generic notes side-by-side. No need to plan ahead. Just start coding in a Workspace and see where it takes you. Maybe more code. Maybe some notes.</div><div><br></div><div>@all: I updated the #fileOutOnAccept preference to let the user opt-in per Workspace window as Jakob suggested:</div><div><br></div><div><img id="b79eb760-9e5a-48b0-bdb7-d056bbe5e148" src="cid:3d5b0063-033f-446e-b5bd-f62c1c8d253f" width="277" height="162"></img><br></div><div><br></div><div>The Smalltalk veterans may either click "No" here or disable #fileOutOnAccept to not get such a prompt in the first place.</div><div><br></div><div>In the long term, maybe, we may want to offer users to have "workspaces" that are not bound to an actual window. And offer a seamless transition from workspace-scripts to classes+methods. So many ideas. :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Marcel</div><div class="mb_sig"></div>
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<p style="color: #AAAAAA; margin-top: 10px;">Am 28.01.2022 17:47:46 schrieb Jaromir Matas <mail@jaromir.net>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Chris,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.75in">
>> Yes, that's exactly right. Reading Chris's reply I started to suspect I'm using the Workspace for what it wasn't made for: I test various snippets in the Workspace and put down expectations, notes, results etc, to be copied to some document later. Checking
standard menus I can't see any text editor - have I missed something important here? (I learn by myself so the clues in the system are crucial for me)<br>
<br>
> Yes, you can use World | open... | file... or simply open Squeak's<br>
FileManager browser and create and open the file there. It's just as<br>
functional as a Workspace, and you can save it and even append to it<br>
if you want.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for pointing me to a text editor from a file, I was not aware of this functionality :)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately there seem to be a couple of problems:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">1) cancelling the accept menu opens a Debugger; I can't figure out how to fix this<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">2) the text editor differs from the Workspace at least in that it doesn't declare local variables automatically; I like to inspect variables after a do-it and I actually don't know how to work around this at the moment...
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">3) the right-click menu has fewer options than Workspace's and is a bit inconsistent (e.g. the more... option is not the last one); it feels a bit "forgotten"... but having a text editor sounds like a good idea at any rate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(Besides that I enjoy having Transcript embedded in the editor/workspace window to see messages from the experiments without always bringing Transcript to the front; but yes, that's my personal preference and I could embed it in a text
editor too)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
> Workspaces are intended for *short-term* experiments, but what you're<br>
doing sounds more like long-term research that deserves something<br>
better than a Workspace, something already able to persist. It might<br>
still be worth considering whether each of the various snippets you're<br>
testing could be titled with its own method name on the class side of<br>
a "MyWorkspaceOrganizer" class. If so, it solves _everything_ we've<br>
been talking about. Backups. Synchronicity. Image crashes. Etc.<br>
It also enables method composition and you could even make versions of<br>
it..<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">E.g. recently I’ve been playing with small things like<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p := [Semaphore new wait] fork.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Processor yield.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p suspend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p resume<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p := [Semaphore new wait] fork.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Processor yield.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p suspend.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p := [Semaphore new wait] fork.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Processor yield.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p := [Semaphore new wait] fork.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Processor yield.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">p resume<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">In this case the Workspace seemed most suitable. But for some real/larger work organizing the experiments in methods sounds like a good idea – thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><br>
> > > I just realized being able to save Workspaces opens this can of worms of needing a stale-detection system in any case -- otherwise users will face this "doubt" every single time they launch the image. (Chris)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
<br>
> > Yes, true, I know this feeling very well :) That's why I like Marcel's idea to append the accepted contents to the saved file rather than overwrite; it's a backup anyway so when a disaster (or doubt) strikes one can check the backups.<br>
<br>
> The above-mentioned file features have an append feature, however, I<br>
don't think that would help if the image crashed and you didn't save.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marcel’s Workspace append has the cool feature it is timestamped so it’s easy to separate the latest accepted version of the Workspace :)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks again for your tips!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jaromir<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;color: #000000"><b>From:</b> Chris Muller <asqueaker@gmail.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 28, 2022 1:56:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> mail@jaromir.net <mail@jaromir.net><br>
<b>Cc:</b> squeak dev <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>; tim Rowledge <tim@rowledge.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: The Trunk: Morphic-mt.1852.mcz</span>
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<div class="BodyFragment"><span style="font-size: 10pt"><span style="font-size: 11pt">
<div class="PlainText">> Yes, that's exactly right. Reading Chris's reply I started to suspect I'm using the Workspace for what it wasn't made for: I test various snippets in the Workspace and put down expectations, notes, results etc, to be copied to some
document later. Checking standard menus I can't see any text editor - have I missed something important here? (I learn by myself so the clues in the system are crucial for me)<br>
<br>
Yes, you can use World | open... | file... or simply open Squeak's<br>
FileManager browser and create and open the file there. It's just as<br>
functional as a Workspace, and you can save it and even append to it<br>
if you want.<br>
<br>
Workspaces are intended for *short-term* experiments, but what you're<br>
doing sounds more like long-term research that deserves something<br>
better than a Workspace, something already able to persist. It might<br>
still be worth considering whether each of the various snippets you're<br>
testing could be titled with its own method name on the class side of<br>
a "MyWorkspaceOrganizer" class. If so, it solves _everything_ we've<br>
been talking about. Backups. Synchronicity. Image crashes. Etc.<br>
It also enables method composition and you could even make versions of<br>
it..<br>
<br>
> > > I just realized being able to save Workspaces opens this can of worms of needing a stale-detection system in any case -- otherwise users will face this "doubt" every single time they launch the image. (Chris)<br>
><br>
> Yes, true, I know this feeling very well :) That's why I like Marcel's idea to append the accepted contents to the saved file rather than overwrite; it's a backup anyway so when a disaster (or doubt) strikes one can check the backups.<br>
<br>
The above-mentioned file features have an append feature, however, I<br>
don't think that would help if the image crashed and you didn't save.<br>
<br>
- Chris<br>
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</span></span></div>
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