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Hi Eliot --<div><br></div><div>> <span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">You *cannot* just break older images. This constitutes a fork in the VM.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">Well, I did not. And it is not. </span><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">We seem to have a different idea on the severity of this change.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">It is not viable to introduce a bit in the image header for a feature in Morphic that can already be configured since 1999. That would be kind of crazy. ;-)</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">Again, older images are not broken.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">Well, I can flip the pointer and say that the VM broke the image when Metal-support was introduced years ago without maintaining a proper video cache on its own. THAT was even worse because it broke all images for macOS in the sense that it made Morphic really slow.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">So I finally fixed the regression. This is bogus. Potato, potato. :-)</span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">Best,</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">Marcel</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size: 10pt">P.S.: This thing here is way (!) less problematic than the current 64-bit OSVM not being able to just open 32-bit images. Now that I would call a breaking change that was not quite necessary. =)</span></div><div class="mb_sig"></div>
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<p style="color: #AAAAAA; margin-top: 10px;">Am 27.04.2022 19:58:24 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: 10pt"><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 12:19 AM Marcel Taeumel <<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width: 1px;border-left-style: solid;border-left-color: rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex;min-width: 500px"> <div id="gmail-m_-5416005190550458999__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr">
Hi Eliot --<div></div>
<div><br></div><div>No, this cannot be preserved on the VM side without again introducing that major performance regression that has been there for several years now on the macOS platform. I strongly argue that we keep the VM platform code this way.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: 10pt">You *cannot* just break older images. This constitutes a fork in the VM.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: 10pt"></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width: 1px;border-left-style: solid;border-left-color: rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex;min-width: 500px"><div id="gmail-m_-5416005190550458999__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>However, it can *very easily* be fixed in most (if not all) older images. Just disable deferred (display) updates as it was not supported on macOS for a very (!) long time:</div><div><br></div><div><div><span style="font-size: 13.3333px"> PasteUpMorph disableDeferredUpdates: true.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13.3333px"> Project allMorphicProjects do: [:ea | ea world canvas: nil].</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: 10pt">If it can be fixed easily at the image level then it can be fixed at the VM level, for example, by adding a status bit to new images which invokes the new behaviour in the VM. Haivng to modify old images is ass backwards.;</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size: 10pt"></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width: 1px;border-left-style: solid;border-left-color: rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex;min-width: 500px"><div id="gmail-m_-5416005190550458999__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size: 10pt">> </span><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">To reproduce take e.g. Squeak 6.0 alpha [...]</span><br></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">No, </span><span style="font-size: 10pt">Squeak6.0alpha (Trunk) does not show this issue unless it is not an updated image. Still, this update has been part of the update stream for several weeks now.</span></div><div><br></div><div>> [...] <span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">or the ;ast of the 5.x line [...]</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">The above snippet accounts for this *very easily*. It even works in Squeak 4.x. This is an image-side thing. It always has been. Since 1999. This is not a VM issue.</span></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt">Best,</span><br></div><div>Marcel</div><div><br></div><div>P.S.: Keep in mind that ST80-style "Fast dragging" is always an alternative in older images:</div><div> Preferences enable: #fastDragWindowForMorphic.</div><blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-style: solid;border-width: 1px;margin-top: 20px;margin-left: 0px;padding-left: 10px;min-width: 500px">
<p style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin-top:10px">Am 27.04.2022 03:29:31 schrieb Eliot Miranda <<a href="mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com" target="_blank">eliot.miranda@gmail.com</a>>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> Hi Marcel,
<br>
<br> the issue of windows being invisible when dragged in the new VM is a
<br>major bug. The VM needs to be backwards compatible. It souldn't break old
<br>images. So we need to find a way of restoring the default behaviour in
<br>images that don't set the relevant preference.
<br>
<br>To reproduce take e.g. Squeak 6.0 alpha or the ;ast of the 5.x line and
<br>simply try and move a window about As soon as the window starts to move it
<br>disappears and then reappears when the mouse button is released. This must
<br>be fixed.
<br>_,,,^..^,,,_
<br>best, Eliot
<br><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size: 10pt">Hi Marcel,</div><div style="font-size: 10pt"><br></div><div style="font-size: 10pt"> the issue of windows being invisible when dragged in the new VM is a major bug. The VM needs to be backwards compatible. It souldn't break old images. So we need to find a way of restoring the default behaviour in images that don't set the relevant preference.</div><div style="font-size: 10pt"><br></div><div style="font-size: 10pt">To reproduce take e.g. Squeak 6.0 alpha or the ;ast of the 5.x line and simply try and move a window about As soon as the window starts to move it disappears and then reappears when the mouse button is released. This must be fixed.</div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;border-collapse: separate"><div>_,,,^..^,,,_<br></div><div>best, Eliot</div></span></div></div></div></div>
<br></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;border-collapse: separate"><div>_,,,^..^,,,_<br></div><div>best, Eliot</div></span></div></div></div></div>
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