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Hmm... now this turns out to be another "soft vs. hard linebreaks" discussion? Interesting. Personally, I don't care whether Shout inserts hard linebreaks or relies on soft linebreaks when pretty-printing a piece of code. Yes, that could as well be a preference in Shout.<div class="mb_sig"></div>
<div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Marcel</div><blockquote class="history_container" type="cite" style="border-left-style: solid;border-width: 1px;margin-top: 20px;margin-left: 0px;padding-left: 10px;min-width: 500px">
<p style="color: #AAAAAA; margin-top: 10px;">Am 22.07.2022 00:45:47 schrieb Chris Muller <asqueaker@gmail.com>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(0,0,0);font-family: Arial;font-size: 13.3333px">Compiler-</span>cmm.480 is rooted in the idea that the format of comments is a human communication that fundamentally belongs to the author. I _really_ think Compiler-mt.480 is the wrong approach if the goal is aesthetically "pleasing" comments. I put that in quotes because it's your personal preference -- I myself very much dislike long comments to be indented because it prioritizes aesthetics over readability. When a comment is long enough to take more than one line, it's worth seeing its delineation of that section of code in the left margin.<div><br></div><div>If you prefer them to be indented, please make a Shout preference that dynamically formats comments into indented paragraphs. That solution ensures <u>every</u> width is a good width instead of trying to guess about it and, IMO, intruding terribly into the sovereignty of someone's hand-crafted comments because someone else prefers indentation. Plus, an arbitrary width makes comments even <u>harder</u> to whenever the width you're reading in is narrower than the arbitrary width decided by the formatter (see screenshot, I picked a random method).</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_l5vmch9a0" alt="formatting-code-good-comment-bad.png" width="351" height="472"></img><br></div><div><br></div><div>Squeak can do so much better, <u>easily</u> even, Text has supported indentation for years and years!</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div> Chris</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 2:50 AM Marcel Taeumel <<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de" target="_blank">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex;min-width: 500px"><div><div id="gmail-m_7266347027422576787gmail-m_2767842248703421961__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr">
Hi all -<div><br></div><div>See Compiler-mt.480 (Inbox) for an alternative solution.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Marcel</div><div></div><blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-style: solid;border-width: 1px;margin-top: 20px;margin-left: 0px;padding-left: 10px;min-width: 500px">
<p style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin-top:10px">Am 20.07.2022 09:36:46 schrieb Marcel Taeumel <<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de" target="_blank">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a>>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div id="gmail-m_7266347027422576787gmail-m_2767842248703421961__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr">
Hi Nicolas --<div></div>
<div><br></div><div>> [...] <span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">75 em means that we'll get at least 75 chars...</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">Typography-wise, it just gets a little bit more complicated</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">with non-monospaced fonts. For a prosa comment in Squeak's</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">default proportional font, 75 em or 75 characters-per-line might</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">be much </span><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">on screen considering </span><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">English text.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">At the moment, we have preferences to play around with this:</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">PluggableTextMorph softLineWrapAtVisualWrapBorder</span><br></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">PluggableTextMorph visualWrapBorder</span><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">PluggableTextMorph visualWrapBorderLimit</span><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">80 characters seem to be common for mono-spaced fonts.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On average, </span><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">that value also seems to work with Squeak's</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">proportional Bitstream </span><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">Vera Sans. It's a compromise. Tool</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">windows are not a sheet of real paper.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Best,</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 13px;font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Marcel</span></div><blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-style: solid;border-width: 1px;margin-top: 20px;margin-left: 0px;padding-left: 10px;min-width: 500px">
<p style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin-top:10px">Am 19.07.2022 22:19:32 schrieb Nicolas Cellier <<a href="mailto:nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com" target="_blank">nicolas.cellier.aka.nice@gmail.com</a>>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi all,</div><div>em is a typical unit used in latex. Since it's the largest latin letter in most fonts, 75 em means that we'll get at least 75 chars...</div><div>Nicolas<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le mar. 19 juil. 2022 à 14:50, Marcel Taeumel <<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de" target="_blank">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a>> a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex;min-width: 500px"><div id="gmail-m_7266347027422576787gmail-m_2767842248703421961gmail-m_4735163676214725177__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr">
> <span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">I thought that the em would actually be a unit to get</span><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">> something like x characters in width, using M as the</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">> particular character as a basis.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">Ah, right. Should work. Yet, I would not write a new</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">text composition algorithm but re-use our existing one.</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">And that one is based on either "type factor " or</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">"num chars".</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">Best,</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">Marcel</span></span></div><div></div>
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<p style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin-top:10px">Am 19.07.2022 14:37:40 schrieb Jakob Reschke <<a href="mailto:jakres%2Bsqueak@gmail.com" target="_blank">jakres+squeak@gmail.com</a>>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div dir="ltr">If the research has already been done, then there is no need for guessing and further suggestions. All the better :-)<div><br></div><div>I thought that the em would actually be a unit to get something like x characters in width, using M as the particular character as a basis.</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Am Di., 19. Juli 2022 um 14:21 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <<a href="mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de" target="_blank">marcel.taeumel@hpi.de</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left: 1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left: 1ex;min-width: 500px"><div id="gmail-m_7266347027422576787gmail-m_2767842248703421961gmail-m_4735163676214725177gmail-m_103334369058234561__MailbirdStyleContent" style="font-size: 10pt;font-family: Arial;color: rgb(0,0,0);text-align: left" dir="ltr">
<span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">> 75em may also be a good limit, now that Number even understands such a selector.</span><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">Nope. We need something independent from a scale factor and thus the default font size as pretty-printed format can be checked in. Better use "66 characters", not 75em. No rendering/font properties. For multi-line comments, use the line-break algorithm as in Text >> #withNoLineLongerThan:.</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">Please read the commentary in</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">TextStyle >> #</span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 13px">compositionWidthForNumChars</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">Best,</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size: 13px">Marcel</span></div><div></div>
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<p style="color:rgb(170,170,170);margin-top:10px">Am 14.07.2022 19:55:04 schrieb tim Rowledge <<a href="mailto:tim@rowledge.org" target="_blank">tim@rowledge.org</a>>:</p><div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br><br>> On 2022-07-14, at 10:48 AM, Jakob Reschke <u></u> wrote:<br>> <br>> 75em may also be a good limit, now that Number even understands such a selector.<br>> <a href="https://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability" target="_blank">https://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability</a><br><br>That's an excellent point; extra-long lines are really annoying to read in general.<br><br>> <br>> But seeing Tim's examples: before we start tweaking the indentation of comments by the pretty printer, which would have it insert tabs or spaces or anything else, better implement that proposal to display comment lines left-aligned with the opening ", without requiring indentation characters in the source text. Remember that other thread about whether or not to have line breaks in comments? Somebody posted a screenshot from Dolphin Smalltalk that shows what I am referring to.<br>> <br>> To leave the comments untouched by the pretty-printer seems reasonable to me for now.<br><br>Oh, I'm not wanting to have any tabs or spaces inserted - I want the formatting to be live and use the left indent. Shout does all that work to colour (etc) the text so why not use the fact that it detects comments.<br><br><br>tim<br>--<br>tim Rowledge; <a href="mailto:tim@rowledge.org" target="_blank">tim@rowledge.org</a>; <a href="http://www.rowledge.org/tim" target="_blank">http://www.rowledge.org/tim</a><br>Useful random insult:- His seat back is not in the full upright and locked position.<br><br><br><br><u></u></div></blockquote></div><br>
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