<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Calibri Light";
panose-1:2 15 3 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:HelveticaNeue;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.xapple-converted-space
{mso-style-name:x_apple-converted-space;}
p.xmsonormal, li.xmsonormal, div.xmsonormal
{mso-style-name:x_msonormal;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style>
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Stephen,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">> “convenience” items are placed in the top-level WorldMenu is a preference<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Love it :)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is it an omission or intentional that you removed the Process Browser? It’s not even in the Open submenu.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jaromir</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#8FAADC"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:stephen@heaveneverywhere.com">Stephen Travis Pope</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, January 17, 2023 22:14<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">The general-purpose Squeak developers list</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [squeak-dev] NewWorldMenu</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi again, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I made a compromise so that whether the “convenience” items are placed in the top-level WorldMenu is a preference (ConvenientWorldMenu), giving you either,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="124" height="189" style="width:1.2916in;height:1.9687in" id="Picture_x0020_3" src="cid:bdc58b17-1bb6-47e8-86f0-90388b29e32e@namprd12.prod.outlook.com"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">or<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="136" height="277" style="width:1.4166in;height:2.8854in" id="Picture_x0020_4" src="cid:3dece4ec-59b7-408d-8a7c-c9c7e21ebd34@namprd12.prod.outlook.com"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here’s the change set (which overrides the earlier one):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Shouldn’t this be in the release image?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">stp<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif;color:black">--------<br>
<br>
Stephen Travis Pope Ojai, California, USA<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif;color:black"><br>
http://HeavenEverywhere.com</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif;color:black"> http://FASTLabInc.com</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif;color:black"> https://vimeo.com/user19434036/videos</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif;color:black"> http://heaveneverywhere.com/Reflections</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 17, 2023, at 3:46 AM, Jaromir Matas <mail@jaromir.net> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Stephen, Tim, all<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I very much like your suggestions. In my view the added value of the World menu is<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><i>convenience</i><span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span>- instant access to frequently used items from
the current cursor position. Hence I expect a few of the most frequently used items at the top level of the menu and the rest in sublevels (of open, projects etc.).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Pharo just replicated the horizontal ribbon/dock items vertically and missed half of the fun:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><FEC2D536CC7949F5AB18C8299D4A55D9.png><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cuis: In case of Cuis I miss direct access to the Browser and Workspace from the top level.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><5BC170ABBA764385BE4EBF84E73DA2BE.png><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This is roughly what I have in mind (from my limited perspective):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><6F2EDBDA881A4C32B78E5363F3673618.png><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I personally wouldn’t mind a longer menu though.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="CS">--</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#333333;font-weight:normal">Jaromír Matas</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#8FAADC"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:stephen@heaveneverywhere.com">Stephen Travis Pope</a><br>
<b>Sent:<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tuesday, January 17, 2023 2:23<br>
<b>To:<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org">The general-purpose Squeak developers list</a><br>
<b>Subject:<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [squeak-dev] NewWorldMenu<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all,<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Here’s my proposed NewWorldMenu and the code to produce it.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The submenus are what you’d expect from the old world menu.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Of course there are many alternatives…<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">stp<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><new-world-menu2.jpg><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif">--------<br>
<br>
Stephen Travis Pope Ojai, California, USA<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif"><br>
http://HeavenEverywhere.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif"> http://FASTLabInc.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif"> https://vimeo.com/user19434036/videos</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"HelveticaNeue",serif"> http://heaveneverywhere.com/Reflections</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 15, 2023, at 8:40 AM, Stephen Travis Pope <stephen@heaveneverywhere.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As the British would say, brilliant! <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'll get right on it...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">stp<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="x_x_composer_signature">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">--------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stephen Travis Pope - Ojai, CA, USA<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">http://heaveneverywhere.com<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">From: tim Rowledge <tim@rowledge.org><span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Date: 1/14/23 9:43 PM (GMT-08:00)<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] NewWorldMenu<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="xmsonormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in">
I like the general approach but would prefer even more trimming - along with making more effective use of submenus as Stephen mentioned. This is sometihng I've had on my list for ... well, since before the asteroid strike that wiped out the dinosaurs. If possible
I like menus to be around 7 entries. Nine at most.<br>
<br>
<br>
I was imagining sometihng along the lines of<span class="xapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Help<br>
Browser<br>
Workspace<br>
open-><br>
projects-><br>
do-><br>
save<br>
save/quit-><br>
<br>
... All implemented with our really quite nicely working submenus (see the dock 'Extras' menu for examples if you're not already familiar) instead of the annoying "click on this to open a quite separate menu because we still haven't got around to fixing it"
still seen to often. When implemented sufficiently efficiently that they appear perceptually instantly, even multi-level menus are very effective. In RISC OS menu trees can include small dialogues as well, which sounds weird but boy, it works really well.
With the menu search/filtering we already have (and extended to deal with the submenus?) we could make a very fast UI facility. Oh, yes, one thing also still needed that should be copied from RISC OS is handling cases where a menu (yes, very inadvisably but
still done by some people for what they thought were good reasons) is too long by adding a scrollbar when needed.<br>
<br>
<br>
'open' would list all the tools/apps. Including one that provides all the changes related stuff currently scattered around. And one that provides all the appearance stuff (which should really be a pre-filtered preferences tool anyway) including themes and fonts
and dpi mode and shadows and so forth. I would suggest that the 'list of windows' be a submenu of this.<br>
<br>
'projects' would have all the project options and really ought to be the same on the dock menu.<br>
<br>
'do' is already a pretty crufty grab-bag but I suspect it has a lot of thing people use so probably it should stay, though a pop-up help window seems like a nicer concept<br>
<br>
'save/quit' should be a submenu with the 'anything other than a simple save' options.<br>
<br>
There are a lot of other far-too-long menus as well. The code-editor menu is *thirty-two* items long! And there is a long secondary menu!<br>
<br>
I'm sure we could make this all a lot nicer.<br>
<br>
tim<br>
--<br>
tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim<br>
Death is a nonmaskable interrupt. For now...</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>