[Squeakfoundation]Initial project - Squeak core

Joseph Pelrine squeakfoundation@lists.squeakfoundation.org
Mon, 28 May 2001 09:03:24 +0200


I don't think that it would be a good idea to merge this list with the=20
StableSqueak one. There's a lot of talk here about things that really don't=
interest me (in fact, I'm probably going to unsubscribe today), written by=
people who (as you can see from your answers below) have no real idea or=20
interest in our work.

Just my SFR 3 (about 2 cents).

At 08:37 28.05.2001 , G=F6ran" Hultgren wrote:
>Hi foundation fellows!
>--- Cees de Groot <cg@cdegroot.com> wrote:
> > Here's my second initial project proposal, mostly triggered by the=
> > with Paul.
> >
> > The first project must be a no-brainer, reasonably easy to implement,=20
> and a
> > test of the (initial) environment. I propose CVS/Sourceforge, I know=20
> it's not
> > optimal for St projects but it is there, it works, and we can use it to
> > bootstrap up to a Squeak-specific SCM system.
>When it comes to using CVS with Squeak Martin Kobetic is your man. :-) He=
>is one of the CVSTProj
>members and he has done most of the fully functional CVS integration in=20
>VW/Squeak/Dolphin (but not
>the ports). Personally I have focused on the client/server protocol and=20
>that is not yet ready -
>but it might show up soon in Stable Squeak, who knows. Stable Squeak has=20
>as a semiofficial goal to
>be able to use CVS as a storage backend for the repository mechanisms.
> > Proposal:
> >
> > Calling SqC's hand on SqF cooperation, I propose that we put the VM plus=
> > very minimal core class library on SourceForge, and call that the=
> > Squeak reference implementation.
>My small revision to this proposal would be to start with focusing on the=
>VMs and plugins and
>waiting a second with the "image"/class libraries. That will be a good=20
>chunk of work anyway since
>there are a whole range of ports. This way we might also get some good=20
>timing with the very
>imminent first "release" of Stable Squeak. More below.
> > Rationale:
> >
> > As Paul indicated in his notes on our conversation, there are lots of
> > parallels between Squeak and Linux - as Linux is tremendously=20
> succesful, we
> > might just as well learn from it :-).
> >
> > Both systems are an operating system, and both are applicable in a very=
> broad
> > range, both horizontally (from iPAQ to "SqueakNOS for System/390 ;-)")=
> > vertically ("BusinessSqueak", "SchoolSqueak", ...). Like Linux, a=20
> worthwhile
> > model could be to define a very basic core (kernel, libraries) and have=
> third
> > parties build distributions on top of that with added value. So a
> > BusinessSqueak could be core+networking+Glorp+Swazoo (with a competing=
> > core+networking+Comanche+SMS), a SchoolSqueak would have Morphic and=20
> eToys,
> > etcetera. Keep in mind, that's the general direction I think it useful,=
> the
> > first step I propose here is just a very minimal first step. A side=20
> effect of
> > this operation is that we force the issue of modularity.
>Modularity is one - or should I say - THE main focus of the work being=20
>done in Stable Squeak. As
>my teaser for the next article said - StSq has an ENVY-killer in the=20
>making... Tremendously
> > Squeak-Core (as I propose to name this bit) would define the de-facto
> > standard, which automatically opens up a clear, minimal target for=20
> competing
> > and/or platform-optimized implementations. The first work, apart from=20
> maybe
> > some refactoring, could be to write unit tests for this core so that
> > alternative implementations could be validated.
>These actions that you describe are exactly what StSq has been doing. They=
>have broken down a
>minimal image with refactorings and written a whole bunch of unit tests=20
>for it.
> > The "Calling SqC's hand" terminology I used above is in response to=
> > message indicating SqC's support for the SqF effort ("great, Dan -=20
> prove it"
> > ;-)). Handing over the responsibility for the core to the community and
> > pledging to cooperate on this bit would make this support very=20
> concrete. As it
> > would be a extremely minimal bit of Squeak, it is very likely to=20
> consist of
> > very stable code so that the impact on SqC day-to-day operations is=20
> likely to
> > be small. That helps us to focus on procedures around SqC/SqF=
> > roles, responsibilities.
> >
> > Goal:
> >
> > Produce Squeak-Core v1.0 on SourceForge.
> >
> > Steps:
> >
> > - (in parallel with the other steps) setup a mailing list where we can=
> discuss
> > the scope of Squeak-Core (probably VMConstruction plus stripped-down=20
> versions
> > of Kernel, ST80, Collections, System - the goal is to have stuff in=20
> Core that
> > must be present everywhere, no matter what the size of the platform or=
> > application).
>Why not just merge this mailinglist with the (nonexistant) "Stable Squeak=
>mailinglist"? StSq is in
>dire need of one and I have been very close to setting one up - I have=20
>installed mailman but I
>haven't gotten around configuring it. You have done that so could you set=
>one up? StSq would be
>grateful - right now we just have an alias "stsq@bluefish.se" which points=
>to a bunch of people -
>a list is better and the connection with SqF should be good. StSq and SqF=
>needs to "connect" I
> > - Setup a SourceForge project or adopt an existing one for this goal.
>There is one that was setup for the VM I think. I believe Stefan Rudlof=20
>did that a while ago and
>there was some heated discussion about it involving Andreas Raab and Ian=20
>Piumarta I believe -
>can't remember the issues though - but it sort of didn't catch on since=20
>Andreas and Ian did not
>really "support" it. (My memory may not server me right...)
> > - Setup a self-contained CVS changeset with some extra bits of code so=
> that
> > e.g. the Help menu is extended with SourceForge CVS interactions=20
> ("update code
> > from SourceForge", "commit code to SourceForge", "send patches to=20
> Squeak-Core
> > project mailing list", etcetera).
>Ok, this is where CVSTProj comes in. That project IS hosted on SF right=20
>now - go and take a look.
>The code is fully functioning and Martin Kobetic is the guys who knows the=
>most of it. But it uses
>an external executable CVS right now. A coming version would use my=20
>protocol implementation but we
>haven't gotten there yet.
> > - Take a code cut and stash it into SourceForge. Call it "1.0.0".
> >
> > - Start a machinery like the linux kernel machinery: Squeak-Core 1.1.x=
> > hacking, alpha, unstable, when there's a nice set of new features start
> > stabilizing until a version can be called 1.2.0 which is the next=20
> "official"
> > release, etcetera.
>These things has been discussed at lenght on the Squeak ML. But I do not=20
>remember the results! :-)
>As a sidenote - we are setting up a public new Swiki for StSq later today=
>in preparation for the
>coming release.
>If anyone is thinking of taking action on these things described above -=20
>do get in contact with
>StSq first (using stsq@bluefish.se for now) and check out what already is=
>regards, G=F6ran
>PS. I am sort of taking the role of StSq-nag-person, the guy nagging=20
>everybody... :-) DS
>G=F6ran Hultgren, goran.hultgren@bluefish.se
>icq#:6136722, GSM: +46 70 3933950, http://www.bluefish.se
>"Department of Redundancy department." -- ThinkGeek
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  - Joseph Pelrine [ | ]
Daedalos Consulting
Email:  jpelrine@acm.org
Web:    www.daedalos.com/~j_pelrine

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