A little more.

[Michael Rueger]

owner-squeakland at squeakland.org wrote:
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> From: "Watt, Ian S.I." <IWATT at Allstate.COM>
> To: "'squeakland at squeakland.org'" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
> Subject: RE: A little more.
> Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 10:48:02 -0600
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> Thom, John et al:
> 
> A very interesting discussion.  Here is a small thought.
> 
> "I'm trying to imagine a world where kids in particular can select the most
> appropriate tool to express an idea or offer a solution." -- from Thom's
> mail below
> 
> Mostly, we adults use tools to, as perfectly as we know how, pass ideas,
> emotions, convictions from one brain to another, or to many.  This is what
> we're talking about here.
> 
> I think we're off base.  This concept is an adult one.  We need to persuade,
> to convince, to explain.  These are not really childhood needs.  We simply
> impose the convention on them -- "present your report on mammals" -- because
> it's the way we work, and the way we hope they'll be trained to work.
> 
> Children -- my observations only, ignore me as needed -- mostly absorb.
> They read because they're interested, they create because they like the
> result.  It's not for consumption by anyone else.  All the praise we heap on
> them "what a nice picture, Johnny" is more or less irrelevant.  I see a
> child spend happy time creating very interesting art, then blowing it up,
> with KidPix.  If I say "why not use that to make thank-you notes?" boredom
> and rigidity set in.
> 
> Perhaps this discussion is about the range and depth of expressive tools
> available to children as they absorb, create and consume within their own
> worlds?  It's likely those tools, and skills, will still be around when the
> need to convince and explain becomes more pressing.
> 
> Ian Watt
> Allstate
> 847/402-6830
> 
> PS Yes! I believe art and music are at the heart of great design.  At the
> most prosaic level, just seeing how a great artist has used space makes for
> a better Powerpoint presentation.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thom Kevin Gillespie [mailto:thom at indiana.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:48 AM
> To: squeakland at squeakland.org
> Subject: A little more.
> 
> I actually started to think of the issue of new literacy from Alan Kay's
> old Dyna book article years ago when he talked of a device as responsive
> as a flute. Squeak just brought the idea back.
> 
> Years ago I was at Berkeley when HyperCard appeared. This was actually at
> the same time diSessa was working on Boxer. I was struck by the
> similarities and the differences of the two projects. Both seemed to be
> aiming at an interactive tool of expression. HyperCard was obviously
> commercial but the big difference seemed to be the difference between Bill
> Atkinson and Andy diSessa. Both very smart folks, very interested in their
> respective projects. Atkinson seemed to me to be either more visual or
> more artistic and this seemed to be the difference. I sat in some Boxer
> meetings and was struck but the total lack of visual thinking in the
> design of Boxer. While Boxer had more theory and was by nature more
> spatial than a deck of cards, Boxer was an amazingly boring concept
> compared to HyperCard and what was being produced with Hypercard by folks
> with little theory and no real interest in deep theory. I realize one was
> pure research but it was obvious that the influence of HyperCard was going
> to race past Boxer just because HyperCard seemed to be the better artistic
> tool of expression.
> 
> I also realize that SmallTalk seemed to be the predecessor of HyperTalk so
> Squeak brought back the question of what happens when these tools are
> common tools for expression in the world and schools. I realize that there
> is no single tool but there seems to be a lot of visual/sound design tools
> floating around for kids and folks to use and in my original list I didn't
> even include Powerpoint.
> 
> I teach new media and game design at Indiana University. I constantly run
> into students who are very smart, who want to do this new media but
> completely freak when they can't just 'write' it down. This stuff has to
> run and it has to look good in the same way that text has sound good and
> read well. I know from experience that if the skills are not in place by
> 18 the game is essentially over. These really smart folks are run over by
> the folks who for some reason did the art and music on the side while
> growing up.
> 
> I'm trying to imagine a world where kids in particular can select the most
> appropriate tool to express an idea or offer a solution. I'm not thinking
> in terms of math or science literacy but of literacy in the sense of
> reading and writing in a medium, for example Squeak. I'm trying to imagine
> how these kids might become literate given this new media which is very
> 'multi'media. Do you stress textual literacy for the first 8 years and
> then expect them to become multimedia-ists? How does it work? How are the
> teachers and young folks on this list dealing with this reality?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> --Thom
> 
> p.s Thanks for the response John.