"All the Real Math To Which School (Including College) Refused Yo u Access."

Phil Firsenbaum tacmanphil
Fri Apr 18 14:55:02 PDT 2003


Hi to everyone responding to my initial query about creating a pendulum 
in Squeak, specifically in the etoy environment.
John has done a nice job of articulating the problem some of us are 
facing, namely, a weak background in physics and real mathematics. Kim 
suggests that creating Squeak models has helped her address this 
problem. i hope that's true (for me,anyhow), however, I'm feeling less 
than adequate when Alan suggests dealing with "weighing angle" and 
"'down track' forces" and vectors.
Since no one responded to the query about the mathematics book that 
some of us need to read, I've resorted to going to my public library 
and borrowing a few introductory physics books (some from the 
children's room!). I'm off on a little vacation for the next week and 
i'll be taking the books along.
I'll share my results if the books are helpful.
Phil

On Thursday, April 17, 2003, at 12:17 PM, Kim Rose wrote:

> Hi, John -
>
> This is *so true*, and part of what makes "our job" that much more 
> difficult.  We can try to educate today's children to be in a better 
> position to become teachers/mentors and adults tomorrow...but since 
> today's teachers (adults in general) are often "victims of *their* 
> education" they too remain mystified when it comes to ideas like 
> "vectors".  Many of today's adults never took a course in any physcial 
> science, or as Alan likes to point out were never taugh mathematics, 
> but only calculation.   So, this does make it rough as you point out.
>
> I will confess that *my* use of etoys and work in this area, has 
> *finally* brought understanding to *me* of a few math and science 
> concepts that remained "mysterious" until not so long ago.  The good 
> news with this experience is that I have personally seen how creating 
> physcial models in this way can bring real learning.
>  -- Kim
>
>
>
>> Hello Alan,
>>
>> You hit it right on the mark with "vectors," but thinking back on it, 
>> the
>> breakdown in communication may have been over the concepts themselves
>> (despite claims to the contrary). I was discussing this with fellow 
>> computer
>> club mentors and I seem to remember that even the illustrations you 
>> sent and
>> your references to "weighing angle" and "'down track' forces" were 
>> greeted
>> with blank looks. Without dwelling on this sad state of affairs, I 
>> simply
>> want to point out that in "proselytizing" about Squeak we need to 
>> keep in
>> mind that adults, even those in the biz, need the models just as much 
>> as
>> kids; we can't assume an understanding even of simple math and 
>> physics.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> J
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-squeakland at squeakland.org
>> [mailto:owner-squeakland at squeakland.org]On Behalf Of Alan Kay
>> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:22 AM
>> To: squeakland at squeakland.org
>> Subject: RE: "All the Real Math To Which School (Including College)
>> Refused Yo u Access."
>>
>>
>> Thanks John --
>>
>> It would be great if you could list the "language stuff" that causes
>> the glazing. Do you mean terms like "vectors"? What other terms are
>> offputting?  One of the reasons this stuff works so well with the
>> kids is that they just do the models, we don't employ terminology
>> with them.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> At 8:29 PM -0400 4/16/03, John Voiklis wrote:
>>> While I did not ask the original question, I thank you, Alan, for 
>>> these
>>> helpful hints to the pendulum problem.
>>>
>>> Getting back to the imagined book in the subject line and my earlier
>>> question about whether such a resource exists: the reaction I have 
>>> gotten
>>> from all the people with whom I have shared this problem and the 
>>> hints is
>>> that they can understand the concepts but not the terminology...at 
>>> least in
>>> this instance, it is the language that makes their eyes glaze over. 
>>> I don't
>>> present this as a criticism, but, as someone concerned with 
>>> explaining such
>>> things to people, it is definitely an important observation; one at 
>>> least
>>  >that I should keep in mind.
>>  >
>>  >Best,
>>  >
>>  >John
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> -- 
>




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