[Squeakland] Squeak 'non-starter' in U.K. schools?

Wed Jul 9 00:20:21 PDT 2003

Ok, I'm dating myself but I remember seeing some really good 'real'
science/math demos that David Thornberg at Stanford did almost 20 years
ago. He did a workshop in Alaska I was at and it was in terms of Logo and
the real world. I have no idea if these were ever written down but he had
a significant impact on the teachers in the audience. Actually better than
written down would be video taped in some form so folks could see and get
what he or anyone was talking about.

If I am going over old material I apologize. I haven't been reading real
close this summer.

--Thom

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On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Alan Kay wrote:

> Hi Darius --
> 
> I'm pretty sure that Jim was treating Squeak as a medium for certain 
> kinds of content just as you suggest, and I certainly was. In any 
> case, as long as we are being really careful about terminology here, 
> even "Squeak" is not quite accurate, since we are only using the very 
> restricted etoy environment (that is one of many facilities within 
> the Squeak system) with children to help them learn powerful ideas by 
> authoring models of them.
> 
> I think Jim was expressing the difficulty of introducing ideas and 
> processes (whether good or bad) that are different than the 
> officially sanctioned ones. To me, a very important characterization 
> of the problem in the US is that if the children were getting 100% on 
> their tests in "math" and "science", they still would have learned 
> almost nothing concerning "real math" and "real science". Helping the 
> current processes won't help real education in these areas. The real 
> difficulty is getting the real processes and ideas understood and 
> underway. It is not at all necessary to use computers for this, but 
> computers can be very useful "real math stuff", and perhaps they can 
> be subversive enough to get the real ideas under the radar screens of 
> the misled establishment.
> 
> If you are interested in the actual effects of media on thinking 
> (they aren't neutral), McLuhan and Postman are two good places to 
> start.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Alan
> 
> At 5:03 PM -0700 7/8/03, Darius Clarke wrote:
> >Hi Jim, Alan,
> >
> >"... if it's not in 'The National Curriculum', it won't get taught"
> >
> >I'm a little confused. This assertion seems to counter the fundamental
> >concepts & motivations behind Squeak somewhat. Consequently the
> >complaint about the assertion seems confused.
> >
> >I, too, believe that the
> >PC/software/media-content-code-development-tools that this generation
> >inherits are not a "subject to be taught" but a "communication medium".
> >
> >To say that "Squeak won't get taught" is like saying "books & magazines
> >won't get taught", or "overhead projectors & transparencies won't get
> >taught", or "surfing the web won't get taught". The same could be said
> >of any teaching medium. The medium is not really ever _in_ the
> >curriculum. More efficient use of the medium might be in it, such as
> >video editing, library use, referencing magazines in bibliographies,
> >etc. but not the medium themselves. Their use is already assumed.
> >
> >The "Hard fun" is not the learning of Squeak. The "Hard fun" is the
> >learning of concepts via Squeak, manipulating/testing the concepts, and
> >manipulating the physical/tangible projects connected to those concepts.
> >Using Squeak should be dead simple, like "learning the Bunsen burner"
> >vs. "learning the chemical reactions". When talking about Squeak and
> >teaching difficult concepts, these two seem to get confused with each
> >other. Making Squeak dead simple also makes it more viral. We need kids
> >to share it with kids, teachers exchanging images with teachers, and
> >children giving images as gifts to parents, thereby increasing
> >everyone's need for it under its own momentum. Hence, copying and
> >_transportability_ is essential... and not to be confused with
> >portability. (Managing and merging classes and images is the issue here
> >as well as the underlying OS' file system structure and
> >privacy/security.)
> >
> >What Squeak provides to the student is what professional software
> >provides to businesses, a tool that "simulates" and "represents". Squeak
> >can simulate anything, just about. With accounting systems, CAD,
> >spreadsheets, and any professional software package you can think of
> >that has increased business productivity, it gets its leverage from the
> >fact that it is as simulation of the things that make money, products,
> >etc. Software gives everyone a handle attached to what they're
> >manipulating (the content of the pot). I believe this is why Croquet is
> >3D, to take advantage of more robust simulations (and why Microsoft will
> >make 3D the fundamental graphics architecture for its upcoming Longhorn
> >OS http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1072754,00.asp which, in
> >turn, is trying to play catch-up with Apple per this report).
> >
> >Here is Microsoft's foray into changing education (from a paper last
> >year):
> >
> >Technology, Learning and Scholarship in the Early 21st Century
> >By Randy J. Hinrichs
> >www.conferencexp.net/community/documents/LearningXP.doc
> >
> >More MS docs at:
> >http://www.conferencexp.net/community/Default.aspx?tabindex=2&tabid=27
> >And George Lucas' efforts http://glef.org
> >
> >"Modeling" and "simulation" is what we should be selling to teachers,
> >parents, and administrations. ("Simulation" and "Role playing" games in
> >the student's vernacular.) These can still be done with lists & charts
> >and w/o graphics & 3D (e.g. Java/Html-Table Unit Tests).
> >
> >Is excessive testing the problem? Squeak can "embrace and extend" to
> >overcome that. Can't Squeak simulate a test? Can students represent test
> >taking skills in Squeak and simulate, model, and statistically analyze
> >them? Can students create their own tests in Squeak and dynamically link
> >them to their physics models or literary works? Can students test each
> >other in Squeak with their "simulated" tests? Can students submit what
> >the perceive are better tests to the education & governmental
> >administrators? Can the governmental administrators pass the student
> >generated tests? :o
> >
> >Can Squeak help parents better understand what their children are
> >learning, where the children are weak or where the children accelerate,
> >suggest how to help their children learn out of school hours, and
> >suggest how parents themselves can get more help if they are not up to
> >the task (not to mention keep track of all the forms, announcements, and
> >due dates for this-that-and-the-other which students bring home)? Now
> >administrators & parents have a reason to _need_ Squeak. If this is
> >done, Squeak now simulates the school system and illustrating the rules
> >behind its weaknesses and strengths. "Simulation" and "representation"
> >are essential tools to achieve "results based" choices anyway.
> >
> >Can Squeak help Grant Proposal reviewers accelerate the time that they
> >take to review a stack of grant proposals? Can it help provide more
> >accurate grant reviews and teach how to review grants as well (via
> >collaboration, tutorials, and a knowledge-base for example)? If so,
> >mention that fact _in_ the proposal when the Viewpoints Foundation or
> >Squeak teachers apply for grants! That'll open some eyes.
> >
> >Squeak should also model the social difficulties our students face
> >today. Let them explore the full consequences before making life
> >altering or future limiting decisions. We seem to live in a generation
> >of adults who never "grew up" and are often ill equipped to teach "what
> >dire consequences really are" to their children _before_ the children
> >make irreversible choices. Perhaps Squeak's "one-step Cmd-Z key"
> >reflects reality too closely there. Still, we should let parents decide
> >how these models are presented to their children.
> >
> >Last year I mentored & helped my local High School Robotics Team design
> >and build a robot for an academic competition that the students treated
> >with the excitement that they only exhibit at a football match. This was
> >an after school project and an after work projects for the mentoring
> >engineers. Here's my summary.
> >
> >Can a Robot Carry a High School Student into a Brilliant Future?
> >http://www.stormpages.com/futureintent/Robotics.htm
> >
> >Here's the organization that started this competition 10 years ago and
> >now hosts this global competition.
> >http://www.usfirst.org/index2.html
> >
> >Is there not enough time to do all this? We'll, that's the subject of
> >another e-mail. US First does this with their Robotics competition
> >somehow. It's not a "finished product". It's a collection of methods,
> >rules, rewards, goals, scholarships, events, and galvanized parents,
> >teachers, sponsors, and students.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Darius
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