[Squeakland] Re: Squeakland Digest, Vol 11, Issue 17
Alan Kay
Alan.Kay at squeakland.org
Wed Mar 24 10:41:35 PST 2004
Hi --
At 7:28 PM +0100 3/24/04, Thomas Oeding wrote:
>Forward for Steve Gutierrez <sjg9360 at lausd.k12.ca.us>:
>
>I've been following this discussion with interest. I'm very interested
>in getting sketch morphs to follow sequential commands a la the Lego
>Brick rather than running Forward 5 and Turn 5 simultaneously, so an
>object could complete a series of steps and then based on the results
>fire off a new script. Would this be done with text scripting?
No. As I mentioned, just turn off "batching" in the playfields you
want to affect. The world is a playfield and you can turn off
batching for your project by:
- getting the world menu
- clicking on "playfield options"
- make sure that "batch pen trails" is set to off.
This can also be done for individual playfields.
Also, it would be good if you could say more specifically what your
larger goal is here. There might be a nice way to do it in etoys ....
Are you trying to run a maze, etc.?
Cheers,
Alan
>
>On Mar 23, 2004, at 12:00 PM, squeakland-request at squeakland.org wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: getting code from a .txt file into a script (Ned Konz)
>> 2. Re: getting code from a .txt file into a script (Alan Kay)
>> 3. Re: getting code from a .txt file into a script (Alan Kay)
>> 4. Question: delays, collections, object instance variables
>> (Thomas Oeding)
>> 5. Re: getting code from a .txt file into a script (Bert
>> Freudenberg)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:53:31 -0800
>> From: Ned Konz <ned at squeakland.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Squeakland] getting code from a .txt file into a script
>> To: squeakland at squeakland.org
>> Message-ID: <200403230853.31484.ned at squeakland.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On Tuesday 23 March 2004 8:34 am, Gary Frederick wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> Mitchell, David [CC] wrote:
>>>> The Squeakland image hides the File List (or it seems that way to
>>>> me).
>>>> So, I have to do a little trick to reveal it:
>>>>
>>>> Middle-click on the desktop to show the halos.
>>>> Click the menu halo (red) to show the world menu.
>>>> Click "desktop menu..." to show (another, different) world menu.
>>>> Click "open..." to show the open... menu.
>>>> Click "file list" to open the file list.
>>>> Use the tree to navigate to the directory containing the .txt file.
>>>> Select the file in the top-right pane.
>>>> In the lower pane, select the code (probably all of it).
>>>> Right-click and choose "do it" (or press Alt+d or Command+d or...).
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>> All text in squeak is do-able. When I give Squeak presentations, I
>>>> often
>>>> select my presentation text and do-it (even TrueType text, which
>>>> doesn't
>>>> have "do it" on its menu supports alt+d). Also, you can browse
>>>> Smalltalk
>>>> web sites in Scamper and evaluate expressions right out of the
>>>> browser
>>>> pane.
>>>
>>> This will do it. And it's agreat suggestion I will follow up with.
>>>
>>> Now all I have to do is find out how to "do it". ;-) When I tried it,
>>> Squeak told me it did not understand what I wanted it to do.
>>>
>>> This is an etoy. How do I point at the car object?
>>>
>>> I had
>>> self forward: 100
>>> I did it and it did not know what self was (I think)
>>>
>>> I then tried putting in the car
>>> Car forward: 100
>>> and it did not know how to #forward
>>>
>>> How do I reference an object in an etoy?
> >
>> Real easy:
>>
>> if you have the debugHaloHandle preference turned on, you can bring up
>> an etoy
>> object's halos, click on the light grey debug handle, and then choose
>> "inspect player".
>>
>> The bottom pane of this inspector will interpret 'self' as the etoy
>> object
>> (the player).
>>
>> Or you can open an empty script, turn on the text mode check box, and
>> then
>> enter script text in there and then hit the '!' button to try it.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ned Konz
>> http://bike-nomad.com/squeak/
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:12:56 -0800
>> From: Alan Kay <Alan.Kay at squeakland.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Squeakland] getting code from a .txt file into a script
>> To: Gary Frederick <gary.frederick at jsoft.com>,
>> squeakland at squeakland.org
>> Message-ID: <a05100304bc861b83a06e@[192.168.0.3]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>>
>> Hi Gary --
>>
>> You are between two different worlds. The etoys part of Squeak has
>> been artificially restricted and carefully designed to make it easier
>> for children to make *etoys* using various kinds of media. There is a
>> fair amount of design thought and testing in those decisions, and
>> some of these are reflected in Kim's and BJ's book "Powerful Ideas in
>> the Classroom". My strongest advice is to work through these projects.
>>
>> (For example, you say "This is an etoy. How do I point it at the car
>> object?" But it isn't an etoy. In an etoy you get an object by
>> drawing or from one of the parts bins, get its halo, and click on the
>> light blue "viewer" button, to open its viewer on the right hand side
>> of the screen. This viewer holds all the phrases that have meaning to
>> your object, and these phrases are already "pointed to the object".
>> If you make scripts from these phrases, they will work. This is how
>> etoys are programmed in the world of the child.)
>>
>> Trying to do "other things" is quite possible, but I wouldn't advise
>> trying to do it in etoys. The full blown Squeak can run the gamut
>> from the very simple to writing its own OS, so it ranges from about 5
>> years old to Computer Science PhD projects. For example, it is quite
>> easy to implement LOGO or any other language system in Squeak -- but
>> there is still a fair amount of work and thought involved.
>>
>> For most users, including many experts, it is the UI that determines
>> in their minds just what they think they can do and whether they
>> think they will like the experience. The UI in the full blown Squeak
>> is *not* set up for children, and the first thing to do here if you
>> wish to go your own way, is to make a suitable UI environment for
>> children that gives them access to your ideas in a way that works for
>> them. This is quite a design and testing task, but is definitely
>> doable. However, if this is not done, then the children wind up with
>> the worst of both worlds.
>>
>> BTW, the best way to get children attracted to any of this stuff is
>> to first get them to make a project of their own -- such as the
>> "Drive a Car" project in etoys. There is a certain kinesthetic and
>> visceral satisfaction to making things on the computer, especially
>> things that involve programming. This is what the kids need to
>> experience first and foremost. Showing them what other children have
>> done should come later.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:34 AM -0600 3/23/04, Gary Frederick wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> Mitchell, David [CC] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Squeakland image hides the File List (or it seems that way to
>>>> me). So, I have to do a little trick to reveal it:
>>>>
>>>> Middle-click on the desktop to show the halos.
>>>> Click the menu halo (red) to show the world menu.
>>>> Click "desktop menu..." to show (another, different) world menu.
>>>> Click "open..." to show the open... menu.
>>>> Click "file list" to open the file list.
>>>> Use the tree to navigate to the directory containing the .txt file.
>>>> Select the file in the top-right pane.
>>>> In the lower pane, select the code (probably all of it).
>>>> Right-click and choose "do it" (or press Alt+d or Command+d or...).
>>>
>>> Thanks!
> >>
>>>>
>>>> All text in squeak is do-able. When I give Squeak presentations, I
>>>> often select my presentation text and do-it (even TrueType text,
>>>> which doesn't have "do it" on its menu supports alt+d). Also, you
>>>> can browse Smalltalk web sites in Scamper and evaluate expressions
>>>> right out of the browser pane.
>>>
>>> This will do it. And it's agreat suggestion I will follow up with.
>>>
>>> Now all I have to do is find out how to "do it". ;-) When I tried
>>> it, Squeak told me it did not understand what I wanted it to do.
>>>
>>> This is an etoy. How do I point at the car object?
>>>
>>> I had
>>> self forward: 100
>>> I did it and it did not know what self was (I think)
>>>
>>> I then tried putting in the car
>>> Car forward: 100
>>> and it did not know how to #forward
>>>
>>> How do I reference an object in an etoy?
>>>
>>> Sorry for the basic questions. I have no time to look today and want
>>> to show the kids tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could also write a script to read the file and then evaluate
>>>> its contents.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: squeakland-bounces at squeakland.org on behalf of Gary Frederick
>>>> Sent: Tue 3/23/2004 6:13 AM
>>>> To: squeakland at squeakland.org
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Subject: [Squeakland] getting code from a .txt file into a
>>>> script
>>>> Howdy,
>>>>
>>>> I am about ready to show the kids Squeak tomorrow. One thing I would
>>>> like to know how to do is how to read a .txt file that has code into
>>>> a
>>>> project (is that how to 'say' what I want to do?)
>>>>
>>>> I will have some examples I will want the kids to have as scripts.
>>>> Say I
>>>> have a text file that has this in it.
>>>>
>>>> box
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90.
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90.
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90.
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90
>>>>
>>>> I want to be able to read it into a script in a project like the
>>>> script
>>>> project in the Worlds of Squeak.
>>>>
>>>> This is a class of kids that are playing with robots. They have been
>>>> working with programming LEGO robots and with a simulator. I am
>>>> interested in taking their programs and translating them into a
>>>> script
>>>> they can use in Squeak... if I can get the .txt files into scripts.
>>>>
>>>> I'll put some scripts into an image and let them each have a copy of
>>>> the
>>>> image if I don't find out how to go from a .txt file to a script.
>>>> That
>>>> solution is better than nothing and I can do it by tomorrow :-)
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Squeakland mailing list
>>>> Squeakland at squeakland.org
>>>> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Squeakland mailing list
>>> Squeakland at squeakland.org
>>> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:14:00 -0800
>> From: Alan Kay <Alan.Kay at squeakland.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Squeakland] getting code from a .txt file into a script
>> To: Ned Konz <ned at squeakland.org>, squeakland at squeakland.org
>> Message-ID: <a05100305bc8620c4dc8f@[192.168.0.3]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>>
>> But what does this have to do with children and the UI they need?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Alan
>>
>> ------
>>
>> At 8:50 AM -0800 3/23/04, Ned Konz wrote:
>>> On Tuesday 23 March 2004 4:13 am, Gary Frederick wrote:
>>>> box
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90.
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90.
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90.
>>>> self forward: 100.
>>>> self turn: 90
>>>>
>>>> I want to be able to read it into a script in a project like the
>>>> script
>>>> project in the Worlds of Squeak.
>>>>
>>>> This is a class of kids that are playing with robots. They have been
>>>> working with programming LEGO robots and with a simulator. I am
>>>> interested in taking their programs and translating them into a
>>>> script
>>>> they can use in Squeak... if I can get the .txt files into scripts.
> >>
>>> Are you using the eToy environment? I assume that's what you want.
>>>
>>> You can use text scripting instead of tiles. The check box at the
>>> left top of
>>> the editor changes between the two modes.
>>>
>>> However, if you edit the text in text mode you can't see it or edit
>>> it in
>>> (classic) tiles any more.
>>>
>>> Here's a quick way to see the text format:
>>>
>>> * turn on the "debugHaloHandle" preference
>>> * go to the "drive a car" project in the Worlds of Squeak.
>>> * bring up the halos on the car.
>>> * click on the grey (debug) halo.
>>> * click on "browse player class".
>>>
>>> You will see a browser with the Player157 class in it.
>>> Get the context menu on the name of the class (Player157) and choose
>>> "fileOut".
>>>
>>> Now you will have a Player157.st file on disk.
>>>
>>> Here's what it looks like (NOTE that you MUST use bare CR characters
>>> (Mac text
>>> format) if you are editing or building such scripts, though CR/LF may
>>> also
>>> work in a pinch):
>>>
>>> --------------- 8< --------------
>>> 'From Squeak3.7alpha of 11 September 2003 [latest update: #5816] on
>>> 23 March
>>> 2004 at 7:44:49 am'!
>>> Player subclass: #Player157
>>> instanceVariableNames: 'isTrue'
>>> classVariableNames: ''
>>> poolDictionaries: ''
>>> category: 'Morphic-UserObjects'!
>>>
>>> !Player157 methodsFor: 'access'!
>>> getIsTrue
>>> ^ isTrue! !
>>>
>>> !Player157 methodsFor: 'access'!
>>> setIsTrue: t1
>>> isTrue := t1! !
>>>
>>>
>>> !Player157 methodsFor: 'scripts'!
>>> drive
>>> self forward: 7.
>>> self turn: Wheel getHeading // 5! !
>>>
>>> "-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "!
>>>
>>> Player157 class
>>> instanceVariableNames: 'cardPlayer111 unscriptedPlayer1
>>> unscriptedPlayer2'!
>>>
>>> !Player157 class methodsFor: 'reference'!
>>> refCardPlayer111
>>> ^ cardPlayer111! !
>>>
>>> !Player157 class methodsFor: 'reference'!
>>> refUnscriptedPlayer1
>>> ^ unscriptedPlayer1! !
>>>
>>> !Player157 class methodsFor: 'reference'!
>>> refUnscriptedPlayer2
>>> ^ unscriptedPlayer2! !
>>> --------------- 8< --------------
>>>
>>>
>>> So if you could translate your text files into this format you may be
>>> able to
>>> use them directly (depending on the vocabulary).
>>>
>>> What's the format of your text files? Can you send me one?
>>>
>>> You could do this:
>>>
>>> * make a blank project with a Sketch in it that represents the robot.
>>>
>>> * Make a new script in that Sketch that will prompt for a file and
>>> read your
>>> text format into methods (it would be best, probably, to put the
>>> reader
>>> method in another class (perhaps Player) so that you can make
>>> multiple Sketch
>>> classes that can read such files).
>>>
>>> Let's say that your scripts have the method names in column 1.
>>>
>>> The enclosed change set (which you would file into your new project)
>>> will let
>>> you make a script that will read such files.
>>>
>>>> I'll put some scripts into an image and let them each have a copy
>>>> of the
>>>> image if I don't find out how to go from a .txt file to a script.
>>>> That
>>>> solution is better than nothing and I can do it by tomorrow :-)
>>>
>>> You should distribute projects instead of images.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ned Konz
>>> http://bike-nomad.com/squeak/
>>>
>>>
>>> Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ScriptEditorText.png (PNGf/ogle)
>>> (000CAB12)
>>> Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ScriptEditor.png (PNGf/ogle)
>>> (000CAB13)
>>> Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ReadTextFilesIntoPlayer-nk.1.cs
>>> (TEXT/ttxt) (000CAB14)
>>> Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:getMethodsScriptor.png
>>> (PNGf/ogle) (000CAB15)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Squeakland mailing list
>>> Squeakland at squeakland.org
>>> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:28:48 +0100
>> From: Thomas Oeding <Thomas.Oeding at gmx.de>
>> Subject: [Squeakland] Question: delays, collections, object instance
>> variables
>> To: squeakland at squeakland.org
>> Message-ID: <13542007203.20040323192848 at impara.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> forward for Poster at Kinetium dot Com <poster at kinetium.com>:
> >
>> Hi.
>>
>> Five questions from a newby.
>>
>> 1. It appears that tiles placed in a script are executed as sequential
>> Smalltalk statements. Is this correct?
>>
>> 2. Some tiles (e.g. make sound) appear to involve asynchronous calls to
>> outside services, returning before completion of that service. For
>> example,
>> if I put 2 make sounds in sequence, they get garbled together. Is my
>> understanding correct, and is there a way to synchronize on the
>> completion
>> of the sound or to insert something like a delay between the calls so
>> they
>> are heard as two sequential sounds?
>>
>> 3. Is it possible to use collections? e.g. can I make a collection of
>> ladybugs and then use collection methods? I don't mind using text
>> instead of
>> tiles.
>>
>> 4. If I paint two eToys objects (sorry, don't know the right term),
>> how can
>> I set an instance variable of one to point at the oher?
>>
>>
>> 5. Lastly, I noticed that if I view the text version of a script and
>> edit
>> it, then switch back to the tile view, I lose the edits I made. Is
>> there a
>> gradual way to transition from the tiles, drag-n-drop programming
>> version to
>> full(er) Smalltalk or is it an all-or-nothing abrupt jump?
>>
>> Thanks!! (and an email reply would be greatly appreciated).
>>
>> Newbie
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:58:20 +0100
>> From: Bert Freudenberg <bert at impara.de>
>> Subject: Re: [Squeakland] getting code from a .txt file into a script
>> To: squeakland at squeakland.org
>> Message-ID: <0D55A8AA-7CFC-11D8-A4DB-000A9568394E at impara.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>>
>> Am 23.03.2004 um 16:36 schrieb Markus Gaelli:
>>>
>>> Am Dienstag, 23.03.04 um 16:25 Uhr schrieb Mitchell, David [CC]:
>>>
>>>> Middle-click on the desktop to show the halos.
>>>> Click the menu halo (red) to show the world menu.
>>>> Click "desktop menu..." to show (another, different) world menu.
>>>>
>>> Some weeks ago I found out that you could also press the escape key to
>>> open the world menu.
>>
>> Actually, dragging-and-dropping files onto the Squeak window works on
>> most machines ...
>>
>> - Bert -
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Squeakland mailing list
>> Squeakland at squeakland.org
>> http://squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>
>>
>> End of Squeakland Digest, Vol 11, Issue 17
>> ******************************************
>
>
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