[squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate

kharness at illinois.edu kharness at illinois.edu
Fri Jun 11 09:55:37 EDT 2010


Bert, 
This is exactly what I explain to students in person and what I was trying to convey in the new Quick Guide on that subject. I do want them to experiment and when I am there with them in person, we can go back and try to figure out the path they took. The guides are for the not-in-person learners I hope are trying Etoys.
Regards,
Kathleen

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:35:05 +0200
>From: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>  
>Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate  
>To: "squeakland at squeakland.org list" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>
>For this I'd explain to the kids that computers are very capable and very stupid at the same time. They do as they are told, no matter the consequences. If a kid was elevated a hundred kilometers without precautions, it wouldn't be too much fun either ...
>
>The question is how much safety net we need to provide to protect against accidental errors. E.g. "forward by" does fence-testing (the object bounces off the world's border), "set y" does not. That's because assigning coordinates is a more advanced concept than simple movement.
>
>For intentional testing of boundaries (which kids should be encouraged to do) it's IMHO fine to have "not nice" behavior. The lesson is "don't do that" or it hurts.
>
>- Bert -
>
>On 11.06.2010, at 14:20, <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:
>
>> Steve, 
>> The project I attached is similar to projects I see from young students who experiment with huge numbers and find out they can't pause a script. It combines a large y increase by value and a large tickspersecond. I could take back control of Etoys with control-alt-delete or alt-period. I saved it with the debug info. 
>> Regards, 
>> Kathleen
>> 
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 09:43:58 -0400
>>> From: Steve Thomas <sthomas1 at gosargon.com>  
>>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate  
>>> To: kharness at illinois.edu
>>> Cc: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki at vpri.org>, "squeakland at squeakland.org list" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>>> 
>>>  Kathleen, 
>>>  My vote on the EDU team is to remove 100, add a
>>>  scriptable tile for "files per tick" and a
>>>  scriptable tile for setting the tick rate".
>>>  In your quick guide you may want to ask "What would
>>>  happen if you set the Tick Rate to less than 1?"
>>>  or "Try setting your Tick Rate to less than 1, what
>>>  do you think will happen?"
>>>  Stephen
>>> 
>>>  On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:12 AM,
>>>  <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Yoshiki,
>>>    Was "fires per tick" removed because of the way
>>>    the OLPC works?
>>>    BTW I wrote a new quick guide to introduce the
>>>    tick rate feature.
>>>    http://www.etoysillinois.org/library.php?sl=1075
>>>    Regards,
>>>    Kathleen
>>>    ---- Original message ----
>>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:26:22 -0700
>>>> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki at vpri.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not
>>>    accurate
>>>> To: "squeakland at squeakland.org list"
>>>    <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>>>> 
>>>> At Thu, 3 Jun 2010 01:07:57 -0300,
>>>> Ricardo Moran wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why is it hidden? It seems like a very nice
>>>    feature to me.
>>>> 
>>>>  No doubt that it is useful in some cases, but
>>>    the "repeat" tile
>>>> provides the same behavior to the "fires per
>>>    tick" feature but in a
>>>> scriptable way.
>>>> 
>>>>  Also, setting the tick rate is already
>>>    somewhat hidden (holding the
>>>> button on a clock is not discoverable).  With a
>>>    hidden feature there
>>>> and a special-case menu item here and many
>>>    combinations of these two
>>>> produce pretty much the same end result.  We
>>>    thought it is confusing
>>>> enough to explain them to the end user.
>>>> 
>>>>  Removing the "100" option from the tick rate
>>>    menu and making a tile
>>>> to set tick rate in the scripting category would
>>>    be nice.  Trying to
>>>> convince the edu team to reinstate the "fire per
>>>    tick" feature might do
>>>> it also^^;
>>>> 
>>>> -- Yoshiki
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima
>>>    <yoshiki at vpri.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>     At Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:18:19 -0400,
>>>>>     Steve Thomas wrote:
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > Bert, thanks for the explanation.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > So if the default max Tick Rate is 50,
>>>    should remove 100 from the list of selectable tick
>>>    rates?
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > "Other..." still makes sense
>>>    (especially 0.1 for ticking every 10 seconds), but
>>>    we should have some warning so
>>>>>     folks
>>>>>     > know the limitations. The warning could
>>>    be when you select Other in the dialog box that
>>>    pops up. ex: "Max Rate is
>>>>>     50 per
>>>>>     > second, can change in preferences").
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > My major purpose for using Etoys is
>>>    playing around ;) no specific need at this point
>>>    in time. I noticed the
>>>>>     problem when
>>>>>     > running Randy's Dice Roll project and
>>>    was simply trying to figure out how things worked.
>>>>> 
>>>>>      Just FYI, there is a hidden feature
>>>    called "fires per tick" (only
>>>>>     present in the scriptor menu when
>>>    etoyFriendly preference is off) to
>>>>>     specify how many times the script should
>>>    be executed per tick. For
>>>>>     example, if you set the number high in
>>>    Randy's Dice Roll, the bar
>>>>>     graph grows more rapidly.
>>>>> 
>>>>>     -- Yoshiki
>>>>>    
>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>>     squeakland mailing list
>>>>>     squeakland at squeakland.org
>>>>>    
>>>    http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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