[squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate
kharness at illinois.edu
kharness at illinois.edu
Fri Jun 11 09:55:37 EDT 2010
Bert,
This is exactly what I explain to students in person and what I was trying to convey in the new Quick Guide on that subject. I do want them to experiment and when I am there with them in person, we can go back and try to figure out the path they took. The guides are for the not-in-person learners I hope are trying Etoys.
Regards,
Kathleen
---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:35:05 +0200
>From: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>
>Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate
>To: "squeakland at squeakland.org list" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>
>For this I'd explain to the kids that computers are very capable and very stupid at the same time. They do as they are told, no matter the consequences. If a kid was elevated a hundred kilometers without precautions, it wouldn't be too much fun either ...
>
>The question is how much safety net we need to provide to protect against accidental errors. E.g. "forward by" does fence-testing (the object bounces off the world's border), "set y" does not. That's because assigning coordinates is a more advanced concept than simple movement.
>
>For intentional testing of boundaries (which kids should be encouraged to do) it's IMHO fine to have "not nice" behavior. The lesson is "don't do that" or it hurts.
>
>- Bert -
>
>On 11.06.2010, at 14:20, <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>> The project I attached is similar to projects I see from young students who experiment with huge numbers and find out they can't pause a script. It combines a large y increase by value and a large tickspersecond. I could take back control of Etoys with control-alt-delete or alt-period. I saved it with the debug info.
>> Regards,
>> Kathleen
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 09:43:58 -0400
>>> From: Steve Thomas <sthomas1 at gosargon.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate
>>> To: kharness at illinois.edu
>>> Cc: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki at vpri.org>, "squeakland at squeakland.org list" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>>>
>>> Kathleen,
>>> My vote on the EDU team is to remove 100, add a
>>> scriptable tile for "files per tick" and a
>>> scriptable tile for setting the tick rate".
>>> In your quick guide you may want to ask "What would
>>> happen if you set the Tick Rate to less than 1?"
>>> or "Try setting your Tick Rate to less than 1, what
>>> do you think will happen?"
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:12 AM,
>>> <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yoshiki,
>>> Was "fires per tick" removed because of the way
>>> the OLPC works?
>>> BTW I wrote a new quick guide to introduce the
>>> tick rate feature.
>>> http://www.etoysillinois.org/library.php?sl=1075
>>> Regards,
>>> Kathleen
>>> ---- Original message ----
>>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:26:22 -0700
>>>> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki at vpri.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not
>>> accurate
>>>> To: "squeakland at squeakland.org list"
>>> <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>>>>
>>>> At Thu, 3 Jun 2010 01:07:57 -0300,
>>>> Ricardo Moran wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it hidden? It seems like a very nice
>>> feature to me.
>>>>
>>>> No doubt that it is useful in some cases, but
>>> the "repeat" tile
>>>> provides the same behavior to the "fires per
>>> tick" feature but in a
>>>> scriptable way.
>>>>
>>>> Also, setting the tick rate is already
>>> somewhat hidden (holding the
>>>> button on a clock is not discoverable). With a
>>> hidden feature there
>>>> and a special-case menu item here and many
>>> combinations of these two
>>>> produce pretty much the same end result. We
>>> thought it is confusing
>>>> enough to explain them to the end user.
>>>>
>>>> Removing the "100" option from the tick rate
>>> menu and making a tile
>>>> to set tick rate in the scripting category would
>>> be nice. Trying to
>>>> convince the edu team to reinstate the "fire per
>>> tick" feature might do
>>>> it also^^;
>>>>
>>>> -- Yoshiki
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima
>>> <yoshiki at vpri.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> At Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:18:19 -0400,
>>>>> Steve Thomas wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Bert, thanks for the explanation.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So if the default max Tick Rate is 50,
>>> should remove 100 from the list of selectable tick
>>> rates?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > "Other..." still makes sense
>>> (especially 0.1 for ticking every 10 seconds), but
>>> we should have some warning so
>>>>> folks
>>>>> > know the limitations. The warning could
>>> be when you select Other in the dialog box that
>>> pops up. ex: "Max Rate is
>>>>> 50 per
>>>>> > second, can change in preferences").
>>>>> >
>>>>> > My major purpose for using Etoys is
>>> playing around ;) no specific need at this point
>>> in time. I noticed the
>>>>> problem when
>>>>> > running Randy's Dice Roll project and
>>> was simply trying to figure out how things worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just FYI, there is a hidden feature
>>> called "fires per tick" (only
>>>>> present in the scriptor menu when
>>> etoyFriendly preference is off) to
>>>>> specify how many times the script should
>>> be executed per tick. For
>>>>> example, if you set the number high in
>>> Randy's Dice Roll, the bar
>>>>> graph grows more rapidly.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Yoshiki
>>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> squeakland mailing list
>>>>> squeakland at squeakland.org
>>>>>
>>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland
>>>>>
>>>>>
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