[squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate

Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de
Fri Jun 11 10:00:13 EDT 2010 

Ah, I see. Well, the freeze is unrelated to the ticking rate. It's the out-of-range coordinates that's causing the trouble.

- Bert -

On 11.06.2010, at 15:55, <kharness at illinois.edu> <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:

> Bert, 
> This is exactly what I explain to students in person and what I was trying to convey in the new Quick Guide on that subject. I do want them to experiment and when I am there with them in person, we can go back and try to figure out the path they took. The guides are for the not-in-person learners I hope are trying Etoys.
> Regards,
> Kathleen
> 
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:35:05 +0200
>> From: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de>  
>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate  
>> To: "squeakland at squeakland.org list" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>> 
>> For this I'd explain to the kids that computers are very capable and very stupid at the same time. They do as they are told, no matter the consequences. If a kid was elevated a hundred kilometers without precautions, it wouldn't be too much fun either ...
>> 
>> The question is how much safety net we need to provide to protect against accidental errors. E.g. "forward by" does fence-testing (the object bounces off the world's border), "set y" does not. That's because assigning coordinates is a more advanced concept than simple movement.
>> 
>> For intentional testing of boundaries (which kids should be encouraged to do) it's IMHO fine to have "not nice" behavior. The lesson is "don't do that" or it hurts.
>> 
>> - Bert -
>> 
>> On 11.06.2010, at 14:20, <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Steve, 
>>> The project I attached is similar to projects I see from young students who experiment with huge numbers and find out they can't pause a script. It combines a large y increase by value and a large tickspersecond. I could take back control of Etoys with control-alt-delete or alt-period. I saved it with the debug info. 
>>> Regards, 
>>> Kathleen
>>> 
>>> ---- Original message ----
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 09:43:58 -0400
>>>> From: Steve Thomas <sthomas1 at gosargon.com>  
>>>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not accurate  
>>>> To: kharness at illinois.edu
>>>> Cc: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki at vpri.org>, "squeakland at squeakland.org list" <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>>>> 
>>>> Kathleen, 
>>>> My vote on the EDU team is to remove 100, add a
>>>> scriptable tile for "files per tick" and a
>>>> scriptable tile for setting the tick rate".
>>>> In your quick guide you may want to ask "What would
>>>> happen if you set the Tick Rate to less than 1?"
>>>> or "Try setting your Tick Rate to less than 1, what
>>>> do you think will happen?"
>>>> Stephen
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 8:12 AM,
>>>> <kharness at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>   Yoshiki,
>>>>   Was "fires per tick" removed because of the way
>>>>   the OLPC works?
>>>>   BTW I wrote a new quick guide to introduce the
>>>>   tick rate feature.
>>>>   http://www.etoysillinois.org/library.php?sl=1075
>>>>   Regards,
>>>>   Kathleen
>>>>   ---- Original message ----
>>>>> Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:26:22 -0700
>>>>> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <yoshiki at vpri.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [squeakland] Re: Tick Rate not
>>>>   accurate
>>>>> To: "squeakland at squeakland.org list"
>>>>   <squeakland at squeakland.org>
>>>>> 
>>>>> At Thu, 3 Jun 2010 01:07:57 -0300,
>>>>> Ricardo Moran wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why is it hidden? It seems like a very nice
>>>>   feature to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> No doubt that it is useful in some cases, but
>>>>   the "repeat" tile
>>>>> provides the same behavior to the "fires per
>>>>   tick" feature but in a
>>>>> scriptable way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, setting the tick rate is already
>>>>   somewhat hidden (holding the
>>>>> button on a clock is not discoverable).  With a
>>>>   hidden feature there
>>>>> and a special-case menu item here and many
>>>>   combinations of these two
>>>>> produce pretty much the same end result.  We
>>>>   thought it is confusing
>>>>> enough to explain them to the end user.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Removing the "100" option from the tick rate
>>>>   menu and making a tile
>>>>> to set tick rate in the scripting category would
>>>>   be nice.  Trying to
>>>>> convince the edu team to reinstate the "fire per
>>>>   tick" feature might do
>>>>> it also^^;
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- Yoshiki
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 5:53 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima
>>>>   <yoshiki at vpri.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    At Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:18:19 -0400,
>>>>>>    Steve Thomas wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Bert, thanks for the explanation.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So if the default max Tick Rate is 50,
>>>>   should remove 100 from the list of selectable tick
>>>>   rates?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Other..." still makes sense
>>>>   (especially 0.1 for ticking every 10 seconds), but
>>>>   we should have some warning so
>>>>>>    folks
>>>>>>> know the limitations. The warning could
>>>>   be when you select Other in the dialog box that
>>>>   pops up. ex: "Max Rate is
>>>>>>    50 per
>>>>>>> second, can change in preferences").
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My major purpose for using Etoys is
>>>>   playing around ;) no specific need at this point
>>>>   in time. I noticed the
>>>>>>    problem when
>>>>>>> running Randy's Dice Roll project and
>>>>   was simply trying to figure out how things worked.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     Just FYI, there is a hidden feature
>>>>   called "fires per tick" (only
>>>>>>    present in the scriptor menu when
>>>>   etoyFriendly preference is off) to
>>>>>>    specify how many times the script should
>>>>   be executed per tick. For
>>>>>>    example, if you set the number high in
>>>>   Randy's Dice Roll, the bar
>>>>>>    graph grows more rapidly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    -- Yoshiki
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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