[squeakland] [etoys-dev] About Skeleton

[karl ramberg]

This is looking great.
What we should do now is document it so it's easier to get a start using it.
Once we include it it should be a example project or two that explain
the use and features.

Karl

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi guys, I haven't received any response from Avi Bryant regarding the
> license of his csv parser, probably because I might have an old/incorrect
> mail. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because it's easy to write one. So I
> uploaded a new version of Skeleton with my little csv parser and I moved the
> CSV package to treated.
> I think this version is good enough to be integrated in Etoys, what do you
> think?
> Cheers,
> Richo
> P.S. I attached a simple project in order to help educators test it without
> going through Monticello :)
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:21 PM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 1:02 AM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> > I uploaded to the inbox a version of Skeleton with a few changes of
>>> > mine
>>> > that allows you to use a spreadsheet just as you would use mine to
>>> > import/export data and iterate over its contents.
>>> > I also commited a version of the CSV package, which I use to do the
>>> > importing. However, I didn't remember to look at the license of the
>>> > package
>>> > before clicking commit and now that I did, I see it doesn't specify
>>> > MIT, so
>>> > I'll ask the author about it (please forgive me and remove the commit
>>> > if it
>>> > can be a problem).
>>> > Anyway, if you can please tell me what you think.
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Richo
>>>
>>> That is CSV Parser from SqueakSource right ?
>>> I don't see a licence anywhere ...
>>> Can you mail Avi Bryant and ask ?
>>
>> Yes, I did. I'm waiting for an answer now...
>> Richo
>>
>>>
>>> Karl
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:28 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Randy Caton <rcaton at cnu.edu> wrote:
>>> >> > I like the spreadsheet that Ricardo created because it is simple and
>>> >> > basic
>>> >> > and allows I/O. It leaves more for learners to create. Couldn't the
>>> >> > functions already in etoys be used in the cells? Does Skeleton allow
>>> >> > plots?
>>> >> > If so, then what about Ricardo's graphs? I'd like to see them in
>>> >> > etoys
>>> >> > also.
>>> >> > Randy
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi
>>> >> I think it is possible to make all these graphs out of skeleton.
>>> >> From what I see is Skeleton a extension to the way we script and
>>> >> visualize in Etoys,
>>> >> It seems to have a thought out model.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Only working with it and managing the code will tell if it something
>>> >> we find useful and worth while.
>>> >>
>>> >> Karl
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Randall Caton
>>> >> > 41596 Bald Eagle Drive
>>> >> > Bigfork, MN 56628
>>> >> > 218-832-3490
>>> >> > http://www.pcs.cnu.edu/~rcaton
>>> >> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> > On Oct 11, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ricardo Moran <richi.moran at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:20 AM, Bert Freudenberg
>>> >> > <bert at freudenbergs.de>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 11.10.2011, at 14:34, Ricardo Moran wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > Hi,
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > The squeak list is currently discussing about a spreadsheet
>>> >> >> > morph,
>>> >> >> > and
>>> >> >> > that just reminded me about how cool is Skeleton actually. So I'm
>>> >> >> > wondering
>>> >> >> > why it is not in Etoys? I found an old discussion stating that it
>>> >> >> > could be a
>>> >> >> > nice extension to Etoys but the biggest issue being the slow
>>> >> >> > loading
>>> >> >> > of
>>> >> >> > external code. I have to agree with that being a problem but I
>>> >> >> > think
>>> >> >> > we
>>> >> >> > might reconsider just include it in the image as with Dr Geo.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > I know we already have a bloated image full of half finished
>>> >> >> > projects
>>> >> >> > but from what I briefly tested Skeleton seems to work out of the
>>> >> >> > box.
>>> >> >> > And it
>>> >> >> > doesn't add a *huge* amount of new code. See this simple
>>> >> >> > comparison
>>> >> >> > with
>>> >> >> > DrGeo:
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') systemCategories size. 2
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') classes size. 38
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') methods size. 654
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'Skeleton') linesOfCode. 4765
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') systemCategories size. 10
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') classes size. 214
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') methods size.  1863
>>> >> >> > (PackageInfo named: 'DrGeoII') linesOfCode.  17154
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Another issue, I guess, is that if Skeleton gets included someone
>>> >> >> > will
>>> >> >> > have to maintain it, but from what I've seen the latest version
>>> >> >> > dates
>>> >> >> > from
>>> >> >> > 2006 and it still works today. So maybe it won't be that big of
>>> >> >> > an
>>> >> >> > issue.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Anyway, if you want to test it:
>>> >> >> > http://www.languagegame.org:8080/ggame/11.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Cheers,
>>> >> >> > Richo
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> How does it compare to the data table thing you did in your GSoC
>>> >> >> project?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > My data table serves the only purpose of importing/exporting CSV
>>> >> > files,
>>> >> > but
>>> >> > not much else, whereas Skeleton is a proper spreadsheet, it supports
>>> >> > functions, and is well integrated with etoys via drag and drop of
>>> >> > tiles.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Would be nice to have only one, not two table-like objects.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I agree, but since my table is not integrated anyway, I vote for
>>> >> > integrating
>>> >> > Skeleton which is much better than what I did. And if we want the
>>> >> > I/O of
>>> >> > csv
>>> >> > files, I could find the way of adapting Skeleton. It shouldn't be
>>> >> > that
>>> >> > difficult, I suppose.
>>> >> > Cheers,
>>> >> > Richo
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> - Bert -
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
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>>> >> >
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>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>
>