[squeakland] a little help for my master ;)

Fri Feb 22 16:46:06 EST 2013

The Etoys drawing tool takes a little getting used to. Since the background
defaults to transparent the parts you draw seems separated but are still
one picture.
I see no obvious way around learning the hard way to think about making the
different parts and assemble the pieces on a stage.
There are tools to copy parts of drawings; the lasso and the grab patch
tools.

The Scratch way is maybe a little more obvious since it's a little more
clear that you are making small parts to put on the stage.

The Etoys approach has always been authoring on everywhere, and it can be
approached in many ways. There are many stumbling blocks and
it can be really frustrating to get results. But there are also much
flexibility and many project one can do with surprising ease.

Karl

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 4:52 AM, Steve Thomas <sthomas1 at gosargon.com> wrote:

> Bruno,
>
> Excellent question.  I have run into the same problem where a child will
> draw a complete scene with many objects (for example two fish, some plants
> and bubbles) to create a fish tank all in one "Etoys object".   Then they
> want to make the fish move, but the script moves the whole "fish tank." So
> in this case the "Etoys object" is the drawing of the tank or the tanks
> "costume" to use the Etoys specific term.  But in the child's mind they are
> separate objects, that she simply drew all at once.
>
> Let me try and give some definitions from an Etoys perspective (hopefully
> folks will chime in and make corrections as necessary):
> So from an "Etoys perspective" an Object is "Costume" and optionally a set
> of scripts and variables to manipulate that object.  The "Costume" is the
> what is displayed on the screen.  So when you "Paint" an Object using the
> "Paint tool" you are creating the "Costume" of a single "Etoys Object.
>
> How an Etoys object maps to the mental models inside the child's mind is a
> good question.  So lets say a child paints a single Costume for an Etoys
> object that has two fish. To the child there are two fish (and a tank,
> plants, etc.) but they experience Cognitive Dissonance if they try to make
> the fish move.  I say if, because they may not care to make the fish move.
>  Now if they try to make the fish move, but can't figure out how or better
> yet, try the <forward b> tile and the whole tank moves, they get
> frustrated.  Frustration is a good thing (in my opiniion) and to be
> celebrated in class, because it means something doesn't match between the
> child's mental model and the way things work (which in this case is the way
> they work in the world of Etoys).  I am always interested in how to create
> Cognitive Dissonance and try to design a lesson to increase the likely hood
> of this happening.  I will also try to understand children's mental models
> and then find a situation where their mental model will break and present
> it to them as a problem.  The challenge is creating an environment where
> this is celebrated and the child congratulated for finding a situation
> where their mental model doesn't match the "world" whether that be our
> physical world or the Etoys world. Unfortunately most children are taught
> to avoid situations where they are wrong, rather than to search them out
> and see them as opportunities to learn.
>
> Now in regards to your central question "create things that work separatly
> and program them, step-by-step."
> One way to think about this is to think about the "ladder of abstraction"
> (see Brian Harvey's explanation of this here<http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ok_KcxqVrOk&list=PLECBD29A17AAF6EF9>).
>  Brian explains the different levels of abstraction in discussing driving a
> car. This is good for thinking about the different level of thinking about
> things and what are the useful abstractions depending on whether you are
> driving the car or perhaps designing a part of the car and what level of
> abstraction is appropriate and useful.
>
> Bret Victor's Up and Down the *Ladder of Abstraction*<https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fworrydream.com%2FLadderOfAbstraction%2F&ei=PkEkUeKGKqWB0AHnz4GgCA&usg=AFQjCNF5218WkV9XYk07MrfDT2BlJooPqw&sig2=ySkHCDR9LCHMdp198bnRYA&bvm=bv.42661473,d.dmQ>
>  is another excellent resource.  It could be used with and to expand upon
> the Etoy's Challenge.  Brett (to me at least,
> talks not just about "The Ladder of Abstraction" but how do use wonderful
> visualizations and techniques (such as small multiples and graphing the
> time dimenstion)
> allowing the user to step through the algorithm visually at their own pace
> and ways to see the effects of changes in variables on the algorithm.
>
> I seem to recall some things from Society of the Mind<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Mind>that could apply, but can't find my copy at the moment.
>
>  Hope this helps,
> Stephen
>
> P.S. As per an email from Alan Kay here:
>
> I thought of objects being like biological cells and/or individual
>
> computers on a network, only able to communicate with messages (so
>
> messaging came at the very beginning
>
> While "object only able to communicate with messages" does happen in Etoys
> this is a bit "under the covers" and not as visible as it is in the Scratch
> model where they use broadcast and receive tiles to allow objects to
> communicate.  Although I would think using Tests is also a way that objects
> "communicate" using <color sees> and <overlaps> tiles and then interacting
> with the mouse using other tiles.
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Bruno Sperb <brunosperb10 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  Hi all,
>>
>> as studying for my master degree, Im trying to explain as accuratly as I
>> can the ideas that are behind Etoys. Its funny how hard it is to explain
>> something when you are working with it involved with it...
>> As a psychologist (doing a master degree in psychology department ;)),
>> what im trying to do is to show the theory behind Etoys to people who dont
>> know almost nothing about it.
>> It could sound a strange task, but what Im trying now is to explain to
>> people the notion of "object". Then, I wonder:
>> What is an object in Etoys, how could we define an object?
>> Maybe I should better explain this. For example: while working with
>> 8,9,10 years old children here, a curious thing im seeing is that the
>> notion of an object (as an independent thing, that belongs to a world -
>> wich is also an object- but works independently from it, that has its
>> features, handles, functions, etc) is not a given thing for them. For
>> example, even many times later then Ive shown it and explained it, children
>> could still be drawing many things together, just to "keep" them and
>> realize (frustrated, sometimes) they come as the same object. Of course it
>> depends on the kid, but it could take some time after they start realizing
>> it and creating them separatly... And even after that, I think this is a
>> central question working on Etoys: create things that work separatly and
>> program them, step-by-step.
>> Children (and this goes to many adults as well) start thinking all
>> together, like a big idea, and to realize that programming require thinking
>> in levels, or steps, is a major idea of the thing...
>> Maybe (hope not!) im being a bit confusing, but i was just wondering if
>> you guys have some ideas of papers, researches, etc that explain or talk
>> about these ideas, or how Etoys was thought (if was) related to the notion
>> of object.
>>
>> all the best,
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>> Em 27/09/2012 12:38, Rita Freudenberg escreveu:
>>
>> Dear educators,
>>
>>  I'm sorry but I'm stuck in the office with a print job that might take
>> another hour and I'll not make it for our meeting in time. I'll try to
>> start a hangout at 1 pm EDT / 10 am PDT, I hope to see you then!
>>
>>  Greetings,
>> Rita
>>
>>  Rita Freudenberg
>> rita.freudenberg at ovgu.de
>>
>>
>>
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>
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