[UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet

[Gary Chambers]

Lol. 
I have played with "Areithfa Ffenestri" but found it tricky to choose how to
present (in-squeak or hosted). Hence the desire for a framework to ease the
choice.
Had a look at WX too, seemed rather cumbersome to a degree. Again, a nice
framework would allow us to switch at will...

-----Original Message-----
From: ui-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:ui-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab
Sent: 06 September 2007 5:07 pm
To: ui at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Subject: RE: [UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet


Gary,

The more options, the better, of course.  I have been emulating widgets for
some years now (it's actually a hybrid, with a few native hosts containing
emulated "grids" for speed).  I find that users will accept nearly anything
that looks reasonable (good design is always appreciated) and is intuitive,
but they will complain fiercely when the feel is off.

I oscillate between liking and feeling constrained by Squeak's one main
window.  It would be nice to have the option of using native host windows to
whatever extent is appropriate, and then have a good emulated framework that
can run within them.  However, all emulated will meet my needs provided the
feel can stand up to a tired programmer, a scared physician, and a grumpy
touch typist, which I think you can accomplish.

Bill



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029

>>> gazzaguru2 at btinternet.com 09/06/07 11:53 AM >>>
Thanks Bill. Certainly I felt the need to add extra "standard" widgets like
drop-lists and consistent "choosers". Was inspired by John Pierce's and C.
David Shaffer's work for the concept of improving the look and useability of
Squeak.

As I said, it is sufficient to be able to deploy a "not-totally-scary"
product to our clients but would be nice if there was a more flexible
framework in Squeak. These days users are getting more used to alternative
looks/feels due to the increasing prevelance of web-based uis. This, I
think, helps for Squeak adoption in a desktop envirionment!

-----Original Message-----
From: ui-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:ui-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Bill Schwab
Sent: 06 September 2007 4:29 pm
To: ui at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Subject: RE: [UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet


Gary,

I would describe what you are doing as more than a stop-gap.  You are well
along to providing a working emulated widget framework.  IMHO, assuming it
holds up under various kinds of users, it would be largely superior to a
native widget framework.

Ideally, Squeak should embrace native widgets too, but with some additional
pounding and an extra theme or two, you will have an immediately portable
yet robust user interface that can meet the needs of various masters.

Bill



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029

>>> gazzaguru2 at btinternet.com 09/06/07 10:54 AM >>>
Oh, and the user/password for the wiki is...?

Just trying my best to please with something that we use and though other
might like. I don't mind too much criticism as long as constructive and
justified.

Looks like a lot of people are having trouble loading things, when I get
access I'll put a fail-safe guide on the Wiki.

As for the UI in general, I think we need to look at the wider picture. My
stuff is really a stop-gap to allow us to provide Squeak applications to our
users at this time.


-----Original Message-----
From: ui-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org
[mailto:ui-bounces at lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of Brad Fuller
Sent: 06 September 2007 3:32 pm
To: Squeak's User Interface
Subject: Re: [UI] We haven't discussed Host windows yet


On Thu September 6 2007, Brad Fuller wrote:
> On Thu September 6 2007, Herbert König wrote:
> > Or to put it more general:
> > Do we want to limit this discussion to what is stated on the top of 
> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6005
> > or do we think of enabling Squeak to build applications behaving
> > (and
> > looking) like native applications.
>
> (By "native" I assume you mean "Squeak")
> All I did was place Gary's introduction from SqueakSource on this wiki 
> page. So, it's not a direction from Gary.

Oppss... I meant to say: it IS a direction from Gary, but he didn't write up

the wiki page.

Additionally: the wiki page is for everyone! If you've got ideas, please
edit 
and tell us it's updated!

> I guess the first question: is this a community effort or a 
> Gary/Pinesoft effort? Gary has sought advice, changed his code to 
> comply with suggestions and placed it on SqueakSource. So, I'd say the 
> former. But, that's Gary's call.
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