[Vm-dev] Re: [squeak-dev] [ANN] VMMaker metacello config for Squeak and Pharo

[Torsten Bergmann]

Hi Keith,

>It's is not "just a package manager" it is huge and totally over  
>engineered for the purpose you have in mind.

I dont care if you think it is over engineered in it's internal core. 
The specs are easy to write and I can maintain/load them with Monticello.
I can continue to use both: Squeak and Pharo for projects. 
And I can load my projects code and throw Metacello's overengineered 
code out of the image easily afterwards. It's just a vehicle.

Since the spec is parsable I can switch if someone provides something
better in the future. Currently it is available, maintained and working.

Is Bob/Sake project meanwhile with public access? Are you back in 
Bob/Sake business?

>VMMaker is at a far lower level than Seaside or other things  
>Metacello is being used for.

Yes, like FFI, ExternalWebBrowsers, SQLite3 or others which 
are available via configurations. You may say it is overkill for 
such small projects - but you can construct more complex configs 
(like Seaside) from that. 

>... You can put  scripts into InstallerScripts to be loaded using ...

I know all this - but 
 
 a) I want something that works on Squeak, Pharo, Gemstone, maybe other ST's later
    (since I use Seaside)
 b) I want to maintain versions in one file (here in one class)
    not in separate scripts for each version. I can use Monticello diffs to
    see how the config has changed, ...
 c) I want a declarative description instead of code since I may
    use it for other purposes too (deployment and dependency tools, ...)
 
>I could comment on the rest of your post, I basically disagree with  
>pretty much everything you say.

No problem for me ... you dont have to use it. 
It doesnt change anything on VMMaker or prevents you from using
other loaders/installers.

>Can Metacello publish and use definitions on a web page or wiki, can  
>it load from squeakmap, or universes, can it access published bug  
>fixes, can you override with your own local definitions, can it  
>bootstrap from the source.st code inside a monticello package.

Again: Metacello does not care about SqueakMap, Universe, Mantis
       since it is not bound to Squeak. You compare apples with oranges.

Lets play a short game: 

You will find ConfigurationOfMetaSource in the MetaSource project on SqS,
that is able to load a whole seaside app right from a core image
and keep it maintained with new versions.

Show me that Installer/Sake/Bob is doing better here and is aligned 
with the goals in a) b) and c) 

Bye
T.



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